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Thread: 45/70 (.450 Marlin) for deer in Scotland. Has anyone tried it?

  1. #1

    45/70 (.450 Marlin) for deer in Scotland. Has anyone tried it?

    Hi All,

    Has anyone tried putting in a variation to get 45/70 deer legal in Scotland? What was the police response?

    There seem to be a few posts of stalkers asking whether 45/70 can be authorised for deer in Scotland, but I couldn't find any feedback from people who actually tried applying for it.

    I found posts from people who had 45/70 authorised for vermin, boar and target shooting, so it does not appear that the Scottish police are against this calibre in principle. The only place where it falls short is achieving the 2450fps limit for the deer act with factory ammo.
    A typical 400gn load is usually launched at about 1800fps - way below the legal limit.

    A bit of research online shows that a very warm 300gn slug fired from a 24" Marlin can reach 2420, which is just short of the legal requirement. A modern marlin or a single shot No1 should allow for a hotter round, which would exceed 2450 in this bullet weight. Furthermore, there are 250gn and 275gn bullets available for this calibre, and these ought to be travelling faster & well into the deer legal velocities.

    Now, the requirement to ensure that your ammunition complies with the law is with each individual stalker, e.g. you won't have trouble getting a .308 authorised for deer, but if you get a short-barrelled rifle and load a mild 150 or 160gn factory round into it, you might well end up below the legal velocity, firing 2420 without knowing it. Following the same principle, 45/70 should be allowed if you can demonstarate on paper that you can get those slugs flying at over 2450 fps and then it's up to you to ensure your load is legal when you are in the field.

    This makes me think that if you apply for 45/70 for deer and enclose some reloader prinouts with loads that are deer legal, then the police, in theory, should grant the use of this calibre for deer, but has anyone tried it yet?

    If the above is not the case, has anyone north of the border tried getting it authorised for vermin in Scotland and deer in E&W, where the calibre is legal?

    Thanks,

    Chavez

  2. #2
    Why not try and avoid having to provide such in-depth information in the first place by simply quoting the HO Guidance if your choice of chambering is questioned?

    It states in black and white:

    13.31 Suitable calibres for shooting deer range from the .243 to .45-70.

    Job done?

    The .45-70 is also included in the list of cartridges suitable for deer in the list at the end of Chapter 13 that is referred to as a guide for establishing initial 'good reason' for possession of a firearm.
    Last edited by Orion; 26-04-2016 at 09:33.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Why not try and avoid having to provide such in-depth information in the first place by simply quoting the HO Guidance if your choice of chambering is questioned?

    It states in black and white:

    13.31 Suitable calibres for shooting deer range from the .243 to .45-70.

    Job done?

    The .45-70 is also included in the list of cartridges suitable for deer in the list at the end of Chapter 13 that is referred to as a guide for establishing initial 'good reason' for possession of a firearm.
    I think HO guidance will be written for all of the UK and proclivities of the Celtic Extremities are their own affairs. Reckon you might be better with a 444...
    "He who drags the deer has the last laugh (mainly because he has to get his breath back)"

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by scrumbag View Post
    I think HO guidance will be written for all of the UK and proclivities of the Celtic Extremities are their own affairs. Reckon you might be better with a 444...
    Indeedy, but for an initial application why not keep it simple and follow/state what is printed. If further information is then requested go ahead and provide them with reams of external ballistics data - in which case QuickLOAD might well be your friend.

  5. #5
    Look on Barnes website there a 250 grain tsx load that meets the velocity requirements, from memory.

    atb Matt

  6. #6
    I would think your licensing department will be looking for factory ballistic data as a reference to prove that the round meets the velocity, all cartridges can be loaded "HOT" but not necessarily safely.
    Provide your licensing department with factory evidence that the 45-70 can meet the velocity requirement and i dont think you will have a problem.
    A mate of mine did this with his 44 mag Ruger bolt action, he found a Winchester factory loading that met the required energy levels.

    Ian.

  7. #7
    Thanks all,

    Barnes have got published Marlin loads exceeding 2450, so might be worth a try.

  8. #8
    I think buffalo bore may do something (loaded amunintion) that suits aswell, can't remember for sure but I know there pretty fast for calibre loads

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