Worried about bedding

Mungo

Well-Known Member
Mungo,

Agian I have to be brutally honest,

this is the worst I have seen in years, I would be well miffed if this was done to something like my 6mmbr. I would also take it back to the fella that done this,

as well as, what looks like a massive amount of air locks for want of a better description, the rear area looks uneven with even more areas with massive gaps in the bedding compound, and the miss match from the action to a bad bedding job has to effect the actions position within the stock

trully awfull.

bob
 
How does it actually shoot?
The job does look a bit half arsed, in fact quite similar to something I once had done....and then redone.
 
From my understanding and research into bedding ( thinking of doing it to s rifle of mine) is that you remove some of the wood around the rear of the action- but leave a small lip so that the action sits at the same depth at the rear when replaced. I note from you previous post that at the rear of the action it is slightly lob sided for lack of a better word and sits below the wood.
As has been mentioned before this slight decrease in distance from screw head to action could result in the screws being too long.
It takes patience to cut the rear wood so that it can still be used for depth and to keep action straight.
These both make me think rushed job and that is in keeping with the rest of the bedding appearance. This link shows what I mean.
Stress-Free Pillar Bedding
 
Personally I think they haven't removed enough to get a good layer of devcon in there? And it does look a rushed jib and lob sided, I would take it back and get them to redo or get them to pay for someone to redo it.
 
In no particular order:

1)

via Imgflip Meme Maker



2) recoil lug bedding is usually clearanced below and in front..usually by applying electrical tape to the lug before bedding and removing after it sets...doesn't appear to be, as the front screw is tightened on a totally encased lug it is pulling the bottom edge of the recoil lug into the bedding..creating tension
3) bedding material should incorporate a small section of the barrel just beyond the action, the stock has been clearanced to accept it but the bedding is not there.
4) the depth of the bedding compound in some areas looks too thin and is flaking, more clearance required.
5) general sloppiness of application as it has not been taped or cleaned on the top edges of the stock and there is bedding in the chequering
6)the pillars should be in full contact with the metal, not covered slightly with thin bedding, as that invariably flakes away the void will create tension... See point 2
7) part of the tang area is usually left as rear depth reference, the barrel taped to fix height above barrel channel
this hasn't been done so the entire action has rotated in the stock without a reference.
8) the general appearance is shoddy with chips and voids in corners and edges
 
Most will not like to hear this but I am convinced the bedding is not at fault here. It is not a very pretty bedding but where it counts it has enough surface area. I think the theory of bedding with space in the front and sides of the lug is absolute bs. What is one hoping to achieve? That the action twists and jumps back and forth with every shot? Keeping the bottom of the lug clear is possibly understandable and probably won't harm.
I would almost bet if you put a good barrel on this rifle she will shoot bedded like this or bedded with less side voids.
Of course I haven't had the stock in my hand and can't be sure that there is not something else at fault.
I had many rifles with much worse bedding or very little bedding or no bedding that shot very well. I had a rifle that wouldn't shoot even after being perfectly bedded, a barrel change sorted that.
Every barrel manufacturer has a few duds.... Lothar Walther has at the moment a very good reputation for their 30 cal barrels, even so a friend custom rifle builder from Germany sent back one or two last year as they would just not shoot. Those were match treated stainless barrels.
edi
 
I am planning the build of a metal test bed to mount barrelled actions to it completely out of stock and turn it into a rail gun.....

no stock
no questions
 
I am planning the build of a metal test bed to mount barrelled actions to it completely out of stock and turn it into a rail gun.....

no stock
no questions

Not that easy, you still have dynamics and with that physical issues or things that can prove to lead to problems. Start of a new game. Interesting project.

People like Mike Norris or Redmist here do plenty beddings and it becomes routine, they know what will work and what not. We are now also bedding one rifle type since over five years at about 3 per week. We are still learning and improving as we go and have developed our own methods. The funny thing is we bed T3's with our rifle and the customers rifle fits, if one does it right. I learned bedding years back in the automation industry bedding heavy machinery not on rifles.

Overall I am sure one now knows how to build rifles, what is involved with bedding and how to get rifles to shoot the same ammo equally well with a low failure rate. Just look at AI or other sniper rifle manufacturers. From the US to Russia good rifle builders produce a 308 rifle that will shoot the same 168gr match ammo at or under 1/2MOA. We do not have to reinvent the wheel all the time.

edi
 
Edi - thanks for your input.

I'm really keen to get people like you with experience of doing a lot of bedding to comment.

My biggest worry is that the apparent irregularties are putting pressure on the action at certain points. In particular, that they might be causing it to twist a little.

I am more or less resigned to either rebarreling or selling. In both cases, I need to know the bedding is ok.

However, since it looks so messy and slapdash, it is already proving hard to sell. People take one look and run away. So cosmetic or not, the job has effectively devalued my rifle.

If you had bedded this gun, would you be happy with it? And happy to have your name associated with it in public?
 
If the muppet who did that had bonded proper sized pillars in place before he attacked it with a dremal the action would have been supported in the correct position allowing removal of enough stock material to provide the correct depth of bedding compound. A 75 is not the easiest action to bed well as it has deep vertical faces that are easy to get voids in. You need to allow about 30 thou all round the sides and 60 thou underneath the action. Try removing the front action screw and watch what the trigger guard does. If it moves out when the stock screw is released the pillars have not been milled at the correct angle and the guard is being bent and under stress when the screws are tightened. The front pillar if made to fit up against the underside of the action has to be a very small diameter to clear the recoil lug, better to make it a larger diameter and sit it under the recoil lug. Also check the lug grub screw is tight. Sticking tape onto faces of a recoil lug for clearance is pointless, if you want it easily removed machine a taper on the sides and front face but not the rear. Cosmetically your one needs ripping out and doing properly but it probably is supporting the action enough to work. Cannot remember what caliber's your 75 is but If it's a standard factory chambering I would find a good take off barrel and screw that on and see how it shoots. Or you could just sell it as a donnar action (as long as who did the bedding has not messed with it)
 
If the muppet who did that had bonded proper sized pillars in place before he attacked it with a dremal the action would have been supported in the correct position allowing removal of enough stock material to provide the correct depth of bedding compound. A 75 is not the easiest action to bed well as it has deep vertical faces that are easy to get voids in. You need to allow about 30 thou all round the sides and 60 thou underneath the action. Try removing the front action screw and watch what the trigger guard does. If it moves out when the stock screw is released the pillars have not been milled at the correct angle and the guard is being bent and under stress when the screws are tightened. The front pillar if made to fit up against the underside of the action has to be a very small diameter to clear the recoil lug, better to make it a larger diameter and sit it under the recoil lug. Also check the lug grub screw is tight. Sticking tape onto faces of a recoil lug for clearance is pointless, if you want it easily removed machine a taper on the sides and front face but not the rear. Cosmetically your one needs ripping out and doing properly but it probably is supporting the action enough to work. Cannot remember what caliber's your 75 is but If it's a standard factory chambering I would find a good take off barrel and screw that on and see how it shoots. Or you could just sell it as a donnar action (as long as who did the bedding has not messed with it)


Got to be about one of the best guys at bedding a rifle there is around these parts. so I would agree with Neil 100%

bob.
 
I have an Alex Martin 7x57 which was bedded by Armalon and it is as smooth as a baby's bottom, completely unlike your rifle. I would be most upset if such a thing had been done to a rifle of mine. If you would like to see how it should look have a look at Nathan Foster's you-tube films on bedding: The series of films show how to take away material for bedding, how much to take away, and how to leave (or make) datum points to keep the rifle action in place so that the bedding compound has room to work. As the estimable Dasherman has said, if the pillars had been fitted properly it would have helped keep the action on the right level, as would the other things Nathan advises. I really do think that your rifle has been abused.

I will say, quoting Nathan Foster, "Barrels and stocks are consumable and replaceable goods, a good action will last you a lifetime." You have an excellent action with a great magazine system in your Sako 75, a new stock and a re-barrel (and you could do much worse than to use Dasherman) and you will have a rifle which will be ultra accurate and that will be a pleasure to use for the rest of your shooting life.

I do think you have been done over, badly.

Regards, Simon
 
With pictures one can't see a few things. For example I had done this mistake in the past: If the stock isn't prepped right and maybe viscosity of bedding material very high it could happen one distorts parts of the stock (like bending out the side walls) when clamping the action in on top of the bedding material with too much force.
We had one case like that with a 9.3x62, which after relieving apparently went from ~1 1/4" to a bit under 1". All not a huge amount and the lower recoiling rifle should be less critical.

One point was mentioned earlier about the missing bedding on the first bit of the barrel. We had made a few stocks for the F/TR boys going to the WC in USA. Of course they had a few spare barrels along. We could not bed any part of the barrel as one would run into problems when changing barrels. Rifles all shot extremely well. I then starting doing that on all my rifles and am convinced it is better. Why would one try to half bed a small section of the barrel in the first place? No more re-bedding when a barrel is changed also a good thing.
Mungo you could try putting in a different Sako into your stock, if you are lucky it might fit. See if the rifle has the same problems. I doubt it will.
Another point, recently we are getting stocks sent back to us for re-spray after hard years of PH, some are absolutely horribly bedded but no complaints from the owners. I should start a picture collection of what seemed to work and what didn't.

How about shopping around with custom rifle builders if they have a fresh 243-308 Sako take off barrel? I was lucky with a 223 remington barrel recently. To headspace your smith can fit a small ring between barrel and action which is totally OK and even benchrest smiths do it. This avoids needing to set the chamber deeper.

The bedding might need re-doing for the looks at least but I doubt it will make a difference.
edi
 
So just to add to this, I had a closer look at the muzzle threading that was done by the same smith at the same time as the bedding.

Does this look right? It looks like there is a bit of burring, especially toward the very end:


View attachment 69503View attachment 69504

Again, I don't know if this is likely to cause a real problem, but it does seem to point to a general lack of care and attention that just makes me more worrried.
 
Back
Top