Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 13

Thread: Shooting Muntjac Does

  1. #1

    Shooting Muntjac Does

    I was in a high seat a couple of months ago and saw a slender Doe. It looked quite young. It came in to 20 metres away and settled down to chew the cud. Forty minutes later an older looking but equally slender Doe came by and the two of them ambled off together. I was just thinking damn! The first one must have been the less-than-one-year-old daughter and would have been shootable…when a movement at the base of the ladder caught my eye and there was a stripy kid mooching around. Twenty minutes later the elder (I think it was the elder…light was falling) Doe was back and suckling the kid.


    Last week I saw a Doe with a half-pint follower in the field close to the same place…the follower popped out of sight into the wood almost immediately. Another three or four months and both Doe and follower should be shootable.


    I have always based my Muntjac shooting on the idea that any Buck was fair game…but because I found it almost impossible to determine exactly when a Doe’s follower was independent enough to make it an orphan, I have not shot any Does.


    Best practice refers to only shooting heavily pregnant does…how can one tell the difference between a visibly pregnant and a heavily pregnant one when you only get a glimpse through the undergrowth?


    I would be interested to hear from those who guide, stalk and shoot Muntjac Does regularly, what their take on the follower / dependant young issue is. No body seems to mention the identification of heavy pregnancy evidence in the write ups…does anybody bother about it?


    Alan
    Last edited by Alantoo; 03-05-2016 at 17:12.

  2. #2
    Locally I only shoot the Bucks, in my last post a small doe came past but she was far to small to consider shooting.
    They migrate from a large wildlife area which is not shot, I did shoot both when I first started on this farm as they were causing a headache in the new growth areas.
    With the numbers down some what I will pick off the Bucks first and see what is around after the harvest as that time of year can be quite productive.


    Tim.243
    Stalking is very much like going to the night club

    You can always tell an Essex Boy, just you cant tell him much...

    An hour in the field is worth a week of typing trash.....




  3. #3
    I should have included in my OP that I quite follow the arguments for shoot on sight when pest control/number reduction is the order of the day.

    I am just a leisure/freezer filler stalker so have no pressure to reduce numbers. I share what I shoot with the land owner. So I can afford to pick and choose.

    It is just that the dependant young issue specifically with Muntjac Does and their breeding cycle has always been a matter of interest and I have not found any debate about it on here.

    Alan

  4. #4
    its a thorny issue no matter what way about it you go and to be honest your never going to get it right 100% of the time in my opnion so if you do make a mistake dont beat yourself up over it. personally i do take muntjac does and like most others i try and follow the young or heavily pregnant rule, i just always take as much time as i can (which admidtly insnt always that long when muntjac are involved) to let does clear the cover as much as possible or just wander along a little bit to give a follower time to show its self before taking a shot, yes i have missed the odd opertunity for a shot by doing this but thats somthing i can live with

  5. #5
    Alantoo, I stalk Muntjac for a conservation charity, and it is a real challenge. There is also the issue of what is Legal and what is 'best practice' - these two differ. It is legal to shoot any Muntjac doe any time, but best practice to only shoot pregnant does. As you very often only have seconds to shoot a Muntjac you have to make a quick decision in the case of a doe: Hmm...is it pregnant? Is there a follower around? Best practice is to hold and observe, as a follower may be some way behind the doe. Reality is that if you hold and wait, the doe -and the opportunity- is gone.
    If, as in your case, there is no pressure to reduce Muntjac, you have the luxury of shooting just bucks.
    In my case there is pressure - a cull plan- and any Muntjac doe gets shot asap, providing you do not see a follower.

    As far as the ethics are concerned, I feel there are some double standards in the shooting community. Shooting fox vixens all year round is acceptable to most, shooting rabbit does all year round is acceptable to most, shooting woodpigeons all year round is acceptable to most. But shooting a Muntjac doe that may or may not have a dependent follower is suddenly not acceptable?
    Take your guidance from your landowner and from what you are comfortable with.
    • Do not be seduced by the marketing-men....

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Hamburger View Post
    Alantoo, I stalk Muntjac for a conservation charity, and it is a real challenge. There is also the issue of what is Legal and what is 'best practice' - these two differ. It is legal to shoot any Muntjac doe any time, but best practice to only shoot pregnant does. As you very often only have seconds to shoot a Muntjac you have to make a quick decision in the case of a doe: Hmm...is it pregnant? Is there a follower around? Best practice is to hold and observe, as a follower may be some way behind the doe. Reality is that if you hold and wait, the doe -and the opportunity- is gone.
    If, as in your case, there is no pressure to reduce Muntjac, you have the luxury of shooting just bucks.
    In my case there is pressure - a cull plan- and any Muntjac doe gets shot asap, providing you do not see a follower.

    As far as the ethics are concerned, I feel there are some double standards in the shooting community. Shooting fox vixens all year round is acceptable to most, shooting rabbit does all year round is acceptable to most, shooting woodpigeons all year round is acceptable to most. But shooting a Muntjac doe that may or may not have a dependent follower is suddenly not acceptable?
    Take your guidance from your landowner and from what you are comfortable with.

    What he said extreemly well

    Personaly for sport? I'd be picky

    For a cull? I'd take anything that came to my croshairs

    When i started out shooting I didnt want to shoot anything I couldn't eat. I was actualy against the mass exicution of Phesent for this reasion.

    Now I am older and wiser and crows fox and magpie feature in my list of "fair game" as does any munti if they need clearing or reducing.

    Strangly I am still not a fan of driven phesent and prefer rough shooting for one or two for the pot

    If I want to hit 100 targets in a sesion, I'll go clay shooting

    That doesent make me an anti, far from it. I just dont feel happy doing it myself but I am happy for others to do it.

    Thats the thaught process I'd adopt with Munti if I felt leaving folowers without a mom was a serious concern in the scheim of things.

    As above I dont single out Munti as aposed to pidgion, fox, rabbit or any other of gods creatures.

  7. #7
    SD Regular willie_gunn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Oxfordshire, Wiltshire, Berkshire....and Sutherland
    Posts
    6,995
    View my Gallery (19)View my Gallery (19)
    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Hamburger View Post
    As far as the ethics are concerned, I feel there are some double standards in the shooting community. Shooting fox vixens all year round is acceptable to most, shooting rabbit does all year round is acceptable to most, shooting woodpigeons all year round is acceptable to most. But shooting a Muntjac doe that may or may not have a dependent follower is suddenly not acceptable?
    You could have added in all those who viewed extending the roe doe season by a month as bordering on heresy. It's something I've never been able to get my head around. If it's distasteful to find a near full-term roe kid why is it perfectly fine - nay encouraged - to shoot a muntjac doe with a near full-term kid?
    Unless, of course, muntjac are perceived as little more than vermin rather than deer

    We try to shoot pregnant muntjac does but, as others have said, it isn't an exact science. Heavily pregnant does are normally obvious, and if I see a buck chasing a doe I will leave the doe on the basis it is likely to have given birth in the last week or so. Outside of that, however, it becomes something of a percentage game. You can try to hopefully spot a follower, you can try to gauge whether the doe "looks" pregnant, but mistakes will invariably be made. Regrettable, but if you have a large population of muntjac then sometimes you have to take the shots that are presented.

    With muntjac being both polygamous and polyoestrus I am intrigued as to why anyone would just shoot bucks? Shooting does is essential to managing any population of deer, perhaps more so with muntjac than with other species. Of course everyone is free to choose their own policy on their ground, but unless you have eliminated every buck in the area you are possibly achieving very little from a population control perspective, and potentially storing up problems for the future.
    O wad some Power the giftie gie us to see oursels as ithers see us!

  8. #8
    Thank you all for your contributions, better than I had hoped for.

    It is the perspective gained from others' experience which I find invaluable.

    As far as the roe season extension debate goes, I balance the dependant young factor over finding a near full term foetus every time. In my limited opportunity and knowledge I favour to go for fallow does at the beginning of the doe season because the followers can be shielded/educated within the herd, and Roe does towards the end of the season so their followers have a better start with a few extra months of experience passed on to them.

    With regard to only shooting Muntjac bucks and population control, in one respect I am happy managing them to increase numbers...more for the freezer eventually. In the circumstance I described however, I am able to observe this group over the period and will be able to shoot the follower when it is freezer size and the doe before she comes full term...unless a neighbouring stalker takes them out first of course.

    Alan
    Last edited by Alantoo; 04-05-2016 at 12:44. Reason: apostrophe and personalisation

  9. #9
    I shoot all muntjac on site, instantly.

    if there is a calf, it will come to the body of the mother and can be dealt with, if it moves away, it is not dependant.

    that's the way to do it otherwise opportunities will be missed.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by straightpull6547 View Post
    I shoot all muntjac on site, instantly.

    if there is a calf, it will come to the body of the mother and can be dealt with, if it moves away, it is not dependant.

    that's the way to do it otherwise opportunities will be missed.
    That's a useful technique and rule of thumb if used in conjunction with visible pregnancy...does not take in to account the unweaned laid-up stripy kids...but then the pregnancy appearance does that.

    Alan



Similar Threads

  1. Available High Seat cull shooting, fallow/muntjac Buckingham
    By IanF in forum Deer Stalking Opportunities
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 05-01-2016, 17:51
  2. Replies: 16
    Last Post: 10-03-2014, 10:21
  3. shooting times muntjac medal list
    By leec6.5 in forum Deer Stalking General
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 22-02-2012, 13:41

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •