.223 Enough gun for Roe ?

It's good enough to shoot people with and that's without expanding bullets, so theoretically it should be fine for Roe!
There are some strange differences between Scottish and English deer law which would be better unified.
MS

I'm not from the uk but I find this whole ft/lb arguement very interesting, the military are sent out to defend themselves and their country with 0.223 rem but the civilians need a 6mm or bigger to knock over a 40-50 kg deer.
i have only had the pleasure of roe hunting once and that was in Scotland ,with a 22-250 got a little Buck just under 200 yds and it flattened it. I have looked at YouTube clips of roe deer shot with various calibers and often wondered are these little deer just really tough or are hunter just getting pass through with bigger calibers . They just seem to run on after getting hit with what one would consider good kill shots.
I know bullet construction is paramount, I just sometimes think maybe we are all a bit over gunned? A lesser caliber, good technique and sound shot placement might yield better results.
 
I'm not from the uk but I find this whole ft/lb arguement very interesting, the military are sent out to defend themselves and their country with 0.223 rem but the civilians need a 6mm or bigger to knock over a 40-50 kg deer.
i have only had the pleasure of roe hunting once and that was in Scotland ,with a 22-250 got a little Buck just under 200 yds and it flattened it. I have looked at YouTube clips of roe deer shot with various calibers and often wondered are these little deer just really tough or are hunter just getting pass through with bigger calibers . They just seem to run on after getting hit with what one would consider good kill shots.
I know bullet construction is paramount, I just sometimes think maybe we are all a bit over gunned? A lesser caliber, good technique and sound shot placement might yield better results.

Sorry to tell you but we are constrained by stupid legislation as to what we have to use on deer. The legislation was brought about by a bunch of idiots with their own agenda it would seem.
 
223 is perfectly adequate for roe provided you use a correct bullet and put it in the right place. It's perfectly good for much bigger deer provided you use the correct bullet in the right place. But you could say exactly the same about a 6mm,6.5mm, 7mm,7.62, 8mm, 9mm or 9.3mm to be very European or, .243, .256, .275, .308, .318, .338 or .375 if you are not.

And any of the above put in the wrong place will just cause a terrible wound. Bigger calibres have more energy and make bigger holes. Short fat bullets dump their energy quickly, long thin bullets penetrate very well. Bigger bullets may allow blood pressure to drop more rapidly and will physically shock the animal more especially if it's into shoulder / big bones.

Consider the relative size of a 50g 223 bullet shooting a 30 kg Roe Buck to a 300g bullet shooting a 1,000kg buffalo.
 
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The problem with light .223 bullets is some are designed for varmints and so don't penetrate.

Something to be aware of when choosing the bullet.
 
The problem with light .223 bullets is some are designed for varmints and so don't penetrate.

Something to be aware of when choosing the bullet.


interestingly my go to bullet for roe is this:

Hornady Varmint SP 60gr
Hornady Bullets 22 Cal (224 Diameter) 60 Grain Spire Point Box of 100

158569.jpg



They are a non tipped, cup and core design, flat base, Spire point and expand like any other soft point
Will pass through on chest shot with minimal entry and exit holes if you are not driving them through shoulders

The "Varmint" branding is a consequence of the calibre rather than design in my opinion, but also they do not create the armageddon exit the BT bullets can create so are probably of value to pelt hunters in North America
 
interestingly my go to bullet for roe is this:

Hornady Varmint SP 60gr
Hornady Bullets 22 Cal (224 Diameter) 60 Grain Spire Point Box of 100

158569.jpg



They are a non tipped, cup and core design, flat base, Spire point and expand like any other soft point
Will pass through on chest shot with minimal entry and exit holes if you are not driving them through shoulders

The "Varmint" branding is a consequence of the calibre rather than design in my opinion, but also they do not create the armageddon exit the BT bullets can create so are probably of value to pelt hunters in North America

Nosler appear to have different jacket thicknesses.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. So if it works for you, then it's all good.
 
I have reliable reports of 50gr Nosler BT's in .223 and 55gr BT's & V-Max's in 22-250 being used reliably on Roe with acceptable carcass damage.
 
Used PPU 55gr SP running at ~3600fps on Muntjac and Roe. So much better than a .308 in many aspects. Silly that I can drive 4hrs north and use it to shoot Roe but at home I can't.

Any road up, the privi sp seem to be constructed well and do a good job.
 
Years ago I hunted whitetail deer (80-170 lbs on the deer I killed) here in the southeast US using a Ruger ranch rifle in .223. Used 55 grain Remington soft points and shot 7 deer with 7 shots and all were dead within 70 yards. All right behind the shoulder. All shots under 100 meters. Accuracy and a suitable bullet are the keys to the kingdom. At least at reasonable distances.
 
Most factory rounds will do the job I stick to Sako Gamehead 55 grains groups well in my .223 and most important great stopping power with little carcass damage. I steer clear of BTs on deer JMO.
 
I have reliable reports of 50gr Nosler BT's in .223 and 55gr BT's & V-Max's in 22-250 being used reliably on Roe with acceptable carcass damage.


I personally won't choose a bullet that limits shot placement
Unless you can confidently drive it through shoulders on a quartering animal at under 100yds with penetration and weight retention then I would steer clear.
fine for head neck and perfect broadside behind shoulders..

I have used BT on foxes from the same gun and had several "splashes" where it has hit shoulder on the way in
They are very effective once inside though i will grant you that

without wanting to pour lemon on the wound....AMax work better than VMax on light framed animals in .224
 
I personally won't choose a bullet that limits shot placement
Unless you can confidently drive it through shoulders on a quartering animal at under 100yds with penetration and weight retention then I would steer clear.
fine for head neck and perfect broadside behind shoulders..

I have used BT on foxes from the same gun and had several "splashes" where it has hit shoulder on the way in
They are very effective once inside though i will grant you that

without wanting to pour lemon on the wound....AMax work better than VMax on light framed animals in .224

Fair enough. Just info that I've gleaned off some experienced guys I know.

I personally don't want lead everywhere so have started developing a Barnes TSX load for the .222 - accuracy not as good as matchkings yet (2.130" OAL) but have another few seated at 2.170" to try soon (with a full case of Xterminator).
 
sure you don't mean v max work better I tried some a max on foxes and had a few not expand very well compared to v max on sierra blitzkings now you just get a hole and a bag of jelly
 
sure you don't mean v max work better I tried some a max on foxes and had a few not expand very well compared to v max on sierra blitzkings now you just get a hole and a bag of jelly

I mean they work better and more like a softpoint
penetration is better, exits more often

VMax and SBK work well on foxes but they are violent if you hit solid bone on the way in, fragmenting far to much before penetrating
I like SBKs but find them much messier than VMax on foxes
sadly I have 400 of them to get through and they are bloody accurate!
 
In my area, no one would even think twice shooting a 60 pound deer with a .223. Whitetail and Mule Deer weighing at the least, twice that, are routinely taken with that cartridge. In my youth, I hunted with a Sioux indian who would only use his Remington 788 in .223 for deer. (he shot everything with that rifle, now that I think of it...) He used Remington 55 grain SP and never failed to knock them down. He was, of course, a competent marksman. There is no accounting for bad shooting no matter what the chambering.~Muir
 
Ditto. The 223 has a lot going for it. I use one with a pretty fast twist (up to 80gr bullets) and it's the rifle I use most (not, sadly, on deer). For smaller ground game and vermin control, I find Sierra 55gr BTSPs (#1365) very accurate and dependable without being too explosive, but also use 60gr V-max flat base bullets which are excellent for almost all of my vermin control. Be interesting to try the new replacements for the V-max/A-max in due course.
 
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