first rifle.

ricksmaile

Well-Known Member
hi folks,

Would like some advice,

Would it be better to buy a 223 and a 243 individual rifle or better to get one with interchangable barrels.
like a blaser or a sauer perhaps.

just looking for advice as off to buy first rifle.

thanks in advance for any help.

rick
 
Depends on what you want to spend and what value you put on a top class German rifle. Buying new, a basic Blaser Professional with two barrels, two scope mounts etc will cost over £3K, you might do the Sauer for a bit less, but not much.

You can buy two perfectly serviceable rifles (Howa for eg) for £600 or so each. Warne scope mounts will be under £100 per set.

If you can afford it, I would go for the Blaser option, but not if it causes hardship elsewhere.
 
If your doing deer and fox then I would look at maybe gwan .223 and something bigger (.308, .270, 6.5x55, 7x64 etc.) for the deer.

But the .243 is one hell of a fox round ;)

Sam
Buy a good scope(s) before you spend all your money on a new rifle though
 
From my point of view it depends what you are planning on shooting as has been mentioned above.

If it is Deer of Roe size and Fox then imho 243 is the perfect combination, and what I have. You may have to have a bit of a bun fight with your FEO re 243 for fox as I did but it is a perfect fox buster and saves having to buy 2 seperate setups.
 
Rick, A .243 will do the job of both. 85-100 grain for deer (around 2900-3000fps) and 55 or 60 grian for fox (around 3400fps). If a fox happens by when you are stalking the 100 grainers will kill it just as dead as anything else.
 
Rick, A .243 will do the job of both. 85-100 grain for deer (around 2900-3000fps) and 55 or 60 grian for fox (around 3400fps). If a fox happens by when you are stalking the 100 grainers will kill it just as dead as anything else.

Agreed, I use 85 Gr Interbonds for Roe and 58 Gr VMax for Fox
 
Again depends where you are. In England minium calibre is .240 for all deer other than Munty and CWD which is .220 with minimum 1000fp, in Scotland if memory serves its based on grain, no less than 100gr with a muzzle velocity of not less than 2450 ft/sec and a muzzle energy of not less than 1750 ft lbs for deer generally and no less than 50 gr with a muzzle velocity of not less than 2450 ft/sec and a muzzle energy of not less than 1000 ft lbs for Roe. Dont take my word for this, be sure for yourself.

I would suggest that most people would not like to shoot Red with less than a .308 but its a personal opionion thing in the end.

All i shoot are Roe and Fox so for me .243 is spot on. If you are going to shoot a wide variety then its right tool for right job time.

ATB

Pat
 
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222 for roe and 243 for red?
or just 243 for an all round rifle.

Rick, I hope you have a tin hat on, this could get messy!

I don't know if you are in Scotland or England? So i will answer for us living in England, we have to use a .240 minimum for roe, effectively a .243. A lot of us are no great fans of the .243 for anything other than fox, it was after all designed as a "varmint" wildcat round. It is used on many estates, even in Scotland on red deer, but has a reputation of causing excessive meat damage amongst some.

I have found that two of my friends have a lot of heart lung shot roe deer with their .243's , that have burst rumens where the bullet has caused massive damage internally, even though the shot placement was perfect. Both use Lapua 100gn .243 ammunition. This, and advice from a head stalker, was enough to put me off buying a .243 for deer, so i bought a 6.5x55.

Now I am not saying that the 6.5 is the perfect deer calibre, I just happen to think it does what I want a little better than the .243.

If you are going for a Blaser or Sauer why not get a .223 and a .308, which should share the same bolt (I think?) thus saving you some cash. The .223 is a fantastic fox and roe round (in Scotland) and it is hard to better the .308 for larger deer, and both calibres are easy to find factory ammunition for.

It is a wonderfully complex and frustrating subject, there are so many calibres that will do the job, and everyone has their own opinions on what are the best calibres. To quote a well known big game hunter, "use enough gun". There will be die hard 30-06 users who consider anything less a waste of time. 308 users who know they have the best calibre. Traditionalists who will tell you a .275 Rigby (7x57) was good enough for W D M Bell and Jim Corbett so that's what you should have. Us 6.5x55 users giving you the auld blarny about it being the best all rounder. And the 7mm-08 users telling you it's the round of the future! It's all cobblers really!!!

Find a rifle that you like and that fits you, and in a calibre it's easy to find factory ammunition for and go and enjoy yourself.

Atb, ft
 
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If I were getting a new set up at a working mans price, i'd still get a Remmy 700 with a synthetic stock with a Swarovski 8x56. The calibre?, well to save any arguments I'g go for the new wild cat round, the .2432706.5mm x 284wssm!!!!
 
Rick,

I would agree with Trenchman and get a 243 to start, there are plenty about, new and second-hand and a good choice of ammo - good for deer and foxes, easier on the pocket and no matter that you see on here they are ok for Reds as well, if you are capable of puting the bullet in the right place. Once you have used the rifle a while you can decide if you need a 223 as well. I have a Remington 7 in 223 and it is a good tool for Roe and foxes (in Scotland only, as it appears that the Roe in England are immune to 22 centrefire rounds)!!

I would steer clear of the synthetic/stainless steel Howa though. A mate of mine had one - the barrel/action was ok but the stock was far too frexible, so much so that it sometimes twisted on the bi-pod until it touched the barrel which is BAD for accuracy.

There are still some good deals going on Browning A-Bolts but I don't think they come factory threaded for a moderator.

Anyway best of luck.
 
I don't know if this is a factor for you but...

I have a Blaser but only one barrel, in 308, and find that it really is very handy for transport as it easily breaks down and then goes back together while keeping zero. I take it on the plane/boat a few times per year plus it is handy to break it down even for transport in the car. I have the Blaser case for it and also a custom made flight case which is very robust for air travel.

As a relative beginner to shooting a lot of people advised me to get a plastic Blaser, I would have preferred a nice wood rifle, and looking back on this advice they were absolutely spot on the money and I'm glad I paid attention. If I'd bought something that didn't break down like the Blaser I'd be looking for another rifle now. Equally my stalking takes place in very wet areas and when the Blaser gets wet 2 minutes takes it appart and gets it dry. In terms of being handy I can't think how you could make it any better, other than by making the barrel telescope :)

Scopes are also worth considering and while some may be saying to spend more on your scope than on your rifle and so on I managed to get top notch glass, that is ideal for everything bar small varmints and target shooting, second hand for £250. The scope is an 8X56 S&B and I could probably sell it for more than I paid for it. So, don't get tied into spending a fortune on a scope if a quality 2nd hand one from a reliable source would do your job. Do stick with the big European names though but focus on the quality and suitability rather than on the cash - yes you get what you pay for but you can save a lot with no reduction in quality.
 
Rick,


I would steer clear of the synthetic/stainless steel Howa though. A mate of mine had one - the barrel/action was ok but the stock was far too frexible, so much so that it sometimes twisted on the bi-pod until it touched the barrel which is BAD for accuracy.

Anyway best of luck.

Really? I hadn't heard that. What experience do others have of Howa's?
 
I would suggest that most people would not like to shoot Red with less than a .308 but its a personal opionion thing in the end.

ATB

Pat

I shoot everything with my 6 1/2 -120 grain Barnes TSX, never had a problem. 308 stays in the cabinet!
 
Really? I hadn't heard that. What experience do others have of Howa's?

Wildgoose, just to give you an idea about the Howa's, have a read of this;


http://www.chuckhawks.com/finest_bolt_actions.htm

You will notice that nowhere in this is a mention of a Remington! If you want an action to build on, that is really rated, that won't break the bank, buy a Howa. There is a nice line in semi-customised Howa's becoming available from the trade, and not at silly money. The stock on a Howa is no bendier than that on a Tikka all-weather 595 or T3, I have tried all three.

ft

Edit; The actions are noted for not stretching! Sorry Sam :D :stir:
 
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If memory serves dont Weatherby use Howa actions on their Vanguards? From Flytie's link its not too clear but Im sure I read it somewhere.

When I went to buy my X Bolt I had given a 1500 Lightening serious consideration and the primary reason for not getting one was not that it wasnt a good platform but that I thought it was uglier than sin :)
 
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1st Gun?

Buy the 243 and a good scope. Great place to start and it will kill everything that walks past you in the UK.
 
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