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Thread: .223 for roe

  1. #1

    Thumbs up .223 for roe

    Has anyone heard anything mentioned recently about .223 being allowed for roe in England?

    I hope it's not just a rumour
    "It's halfway down the hill, directly below that tree next to a rock that looks like a bell-end"

    Good deals with ~ deako ~ sakowsm ~ dryan ~ 2734neil ~ mo ~ riggers ~ mmbeatle ~ seanct ~ an du ru fox

  2. #2
    There was a public consultation on this subject, and other more important deer related matters, prior to the 2007 deer (ammendment) act.

    Those people that had the relevant experience and knowledge and, most importantly, could be bothered to respond, where listened to and centrefire .22's were not allowed for roe in England and Wales. This was an excellent, and very unusual, example of DEFRA working well.

    The NGO and others whinged about it but failed to but forward a well thought out and professional response and it was fairly clear that they were simply trying to legitimise what the cowboys were already doing (and no doubt still are) so they didn't get their way.

    Its a controversial subject and probably always will be. I will be supprised if Government re-visits this any time soon as they have plenty of more important issues to address but who knows.

    Before everyone attacks me, can I please ask that you only bother to critise now if you could be bothered to respond then, thats only fair. And also, remember that Si asked about England not Scotland and my relpy is about England not Scotland.

    JC
    Last edited by JC275; 16-06-2010 at 12:59.

  3. #3
    I don't think anyone would attack you for stating facts would they?... I'm not after a debate on whether .223 is capable of hunanely killing a roe, just if anyone's heard anything on the jungle drums.
    "It's halfway down the hill, directly below that tree next to a rock that looks like a bell-end"

    Good deals with ~ deako ~ sakowsm ~ dryan ~ 2734neil ~ mo ~ riggers ~ mmbeatle ~ seanct ~ an du ru fox

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Si View Post
    I don't think anyone would attack you for stating facts would they?... I'm not after a debate on whether .223 is capable of hunanely killing a roe, just if anyone's heard anything on the jungle drums.
    Couldn't agree more with you mate, just pre-emting an attack! Have you heard something? JC

  5. #5
    It was brought up on another forum... and a BASC representative was quoted to have mentioned something.
    "It's halfway down the hill, directly below that tree next to a rock that looks like a bell-end"

    Good deals with ~ deako ~ sakowsm ~ dryan ~ 2734neil ~ mo ~ riggers ~ mmbeatle ~ seanct ~ an du ru fox

  6. #6
    As I understand the situation, (and I will always be happy to be proved wrong), the BASC argued that the .22 Centrefires should be allowed for Roe, Muntjac and Chinese Water Deer, the BDS argued against. The outcome is that Roe cannot be taken with a .22 Centrefire in England and Wales. They can in Scotland. Muntjac and Chinese Water Deer can be taken in England with .22 Centrefires.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Schwarzwild View Post
    As I understand the situation, (and I will always be happy to be proved wrong), the BASC argued that the .22 Centrefires should be allowed for Roe, Muntjac and Chinese Water Deer, the BDS argued against. The outcome is that Roe cannot be taken with a .22 Centrefire in England and Wales. They can in Scotland. Muntjac and Chinese Water Deer can be taken in England with .22 Centrefires.
    You are correct as long as you exclude the .22 Hornet and there were alot more players/consultees than just the BASC and BDS. JC

  8. #8
    Thank you for pointing out that I neglected to exclude the .22 Hornet JC. I was aware that there was more than BASC and BDS involved in the consultation. However, I had been informed by whom I felt were knowledgeable persons within the consultation, that by far the major players in the .22 or not for roe, were the two organisations mentioned. My apology if that is not the case.
    Last edited by Schwarzwild; 17-06-2010 at 06:32. Reason: Grammatical Error

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Schwarzwild View Post
    Thank you for pointing out that I neglected to exclude the .22 Hornet JC. I was aware that there was more than BASC and BDS involved in the consultation. However, I had been informed by whom I felt were knowledgeable persons within the consultation, that by far the major players in the .22 or not for roe, were the two organisations mentioned. My apology if that is not the case.
    Sorry if my reply came across as a bit stroppy, didn't mean it that way.

    As I understand it, the evaluation of these consultations is a bit like a census, DEFRA (or some data analysis contractor) will record the number of responses and grade them as for or against (if it is as simple as that) or record a summary of the points raised then pass his findings up the chain. In theory, a response from Joe Bloggs the stalker is as valid as a response from BASC with x thousand members.

    Obviously its not just decided on a 'score' system but is evaluated in depth. As I've said before, the change of calibre thing was only a small part of it, and probably the part which needed the least attention, but got the most publicity.

    I think the crux of it is this, if you want to get your opinion noted by Civil Servants etc then it must be laid out clearly and concisely and be backed up by evidence not anecdote, this is probably why the BDS/BASC/RFS/NE/CLA et al, came across well. If you just try and shout loudest and say 'you pen pushers don't know what you're talking about, I've shot thousands of deer with my .222 blah blah blah...' then its no supprise that that sort of response ends up in file 13 (bin)

    Best wishes, JC
    Last edited by JC275; 17-06-2010 at 10:03.

  10. #10
    Not a problem at all JC. You correctly pointed out an omission and it was not taken by me as being "stroppy", rather as informative. Thank you also for your clear explanation of the consultation process and advice on dealing (as far as anyone outside the Civil Service can) with said civil servants. I can not but agree. Your good wishes are fully reciprocated.

    David.

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