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Thread: Barrel length

  1. #1
    SD Regular Greener Jim's Avatar
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    Barrel length

    Hypothetically would a sub 12" barrel fitted with a PERMANENT shroud to take up to 12" be legal?
    I have seen 12" barrels with shrouds and fake moddys but never a sub 12" barrel with a 12" shroud.

    Obviously I would check with my FLO but I am not back in the UK for another week.
    Any Questions Feel Free to PM me

  2. #2
    As long as the barrel extension attached to the end of the barrel is, as you say - permanent (welded etc) and brings the combination over 12" from the chamber then it's legal. I've seen a fair few guns with this configuration from Spaz 12 to AK straight pulls. But permanent means just that, not "screwed on REALLY tight!" as one bloke offered up to his FEO about 10 or so years ago.

  3. #3
    I believe the Home Office has offered an opinion on this to the effect that the shroud does not count as part of the barrel, so a 10" barrel extended to over 12" with a welded shroud would still be illegal. It's an opinion, but who wants to be a test case on this?

    Check with your FLO if you wish. All I would offer is that you should never assume, or rely upon, an FLO knowing the law, or anything about shooting. If you should find yourself stood in the dock saying "But my FLO told me....." you will be wasting your time.

  4. #4
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    The Firearms Act 1988 dealt, in part, with extending barrels on sub 24" barrel pump action and self loading shot guns to stop them becoming s5.

    But, at the same time, outlawed other conversion to take a weapon out of a higher category to a lower category. The phrase "down conversion not to affect classification".

    So my input is unless it's been altered outside the UK to that configuration it won't remove it from s5 to s1. But I may be incorrect.

  5. #5
    Enfieldspares - well put.
    My understanding is the same in that you cannot turn a S5 to S1 but if the work was done overseas and the rifle brought in and proofed, then it's what they deem it.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Orvil View Post
    Enfieldspares - well put.
    My understanding is the same in that you cannot turn a S5 to S1 but if the work was done overseas and the rifle brought in and proofed, then it's what they deem it.
    Wrong, I'm afraid, if the firearm has ever been S5 and converted, wherever, it stays S5. It can only be classed as S1 if it was built as a S1 from scratch. This is why there is a shortage of LBR in the UK, the HO will not accept revolvers that have had barrels swapped out and a stock fitted. They have even said buying component revolver parts and assembling LBR in the UK is on dodgy ground and would only be resolved when/ if it goes to court!
    This leaves the old straight pull conversions in a very grey area......When is it a new gun built as a straight pull and when is it a conversion?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by flying felix View Post
    Wrong, I'm afraid, if the firearm has ever been S5 and converted, wherever, it stays S5.
    Hmm, I also thought that was the case until several years ago when L1A1's were being brought in as straight pull. They were put together from parts bins of stripped down semi's and various replacement parts like barrel. They were all S5 but were taken apart outside the UK then re-assembled and proofed - hey presto.
    CSA K22's are simply re-barrelled 22 pistols with a coat hanger stuffed up their butts, again - OVERSEAS. Our laws don't extend beyond our shores.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Orvil View Post
    Hmm, I also thought that was the case until several years ago when L1A1's were being brought in as straight pull. They were put together from parts bins of stripped down semi's and various replacement parts like barrel. They were all S5 but were taken apart outside the UK then re-assembled and proofed - hey presto.
    CSA K22's are simply re-barrelled 22 pistols with a coat hanger stuffed up their butts, again - OVERSEAS. Our laws don't extend beyond our shores.
    But once said gun enters our shores it does! As far as the HO are concerned, if it was ever a S5 it remains even if imported as a S1.

    I know of a gunsmith who was prepared to go to Germany and build LBRs from S&W (new) parts and import them into the UK. Asked the HO for guidance and was told that as the parts were manufactured for S5 firearms they would in theory remain S5, but as a firearm that's built as S1 it might possibly be a S1. As it's a grey area he is more than welcome to do it and the HO will let the court decide the issue. As you can imagine it's not worth him losing his business over. The HO wouldn't even say which side of the fence they would be on: fight against them being S1, supporting them being S1 or remain completely neutral and let the judge decide.

    so as far as the HO are concerned they are S5 or S1 or both!

    We are in a ridiculous situation where the HO can't even interpret their own regulations.
    Last edited by flying felix; 28-07-2016 at 10:13.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by flying felix View Post


    We are in a ridiculous situation where the HO can't even interpret their own regulations.
    You can say that again. Not only do they not understand their own rules but there have been numerous exceptions and contradictions.
    I like Orvil understood that the straight pull L1A1s were assembled from dissembled parts, having read of some test case that was successfully argued when put to the H.O.
    It's the calibre of the shooter that counts not the calibre of the rifle.

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