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Thread: What a difference a bullet can make

  1. #1

    What a difference a bullet can make



    This is from the range yesterday. Working up a load for my 30-06 using 180gr nosler bullets. The load was 56gr IMR4350, and the seating depth the same. Both were aimed at the red circle and the grid is .5" squares. The two on the right are accubond and on the left partitions. I stopped after two shots as the partitions were touching!!
    Just shows that same rifle, same load, same weight of bullets, just different types of bullet from the same manufacturer. One touching and to the left, the other one inch group and to the right!

    BE

    Picture is rotated by 90 degrees sorry!!

  2. #2
    Perhaps a five shot group repeated several times might tell you more, just a thought.?

  3. #3
    Agreed. Statistically speaking that's too small a sample to make any judgement. Note the relative shape of the groups is the same indicating shooter or equipment is having an influence~Muir
    Last edited by Muir; 25-09-2016 at 14:53.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Muir View Post
    Agreed. Statistically speaking that's too small a sample to make any judgement. Note the relative shape of the groups is the same indicating shooter or equipment is having an influence~Muir
    I can see why you say that but don't agree. As the shooter and rifle are the same and so was the day time and weather the only variable is the bullet. I agree it is a small sample but the likely hood of this occurring by chance is very small, there is little doubt in my mind that the partitions shoot better at this load.What is interesting is the widely different POI compared to POA and this is what surprised me most

  5. #5
    The harmonics of the rifle will change along with different bullet makes/models/components ,so allthough the poa might not change the poi might,i think what the others said wasn,t critisism just that more shots could give you two groups that might be good but different poi that you could actually use ,that is if you found out with bigger groups where they will land,atb doug
    Last edited by AN DU RU FOX; 25-09-2016 at 17:17.
    DONT START

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by big ears View Post

    Working up a load for my 30-06 using 180gr nosler bullets. The load was 56gr IMR4350, and the seating depth the same.
    The two on the right are accubond and on the left partitions. I stopped after two shots as the partitions were touching!!

    Just shows that same rifle, same load, same weight of bullets, just different types of bullet from the same manufacturer.
    One touching and to the left, the other one inch group and to the right!


    BE

    To be honest if you had started at a different charge level this could be the same outcome but the other way round.

    its interesting but not conclusive of anything other than finding an accuracy node for the partition in that rifle


    for a stalking load I would agree they are better than most factory, zero and go stalking

    for the purposes of squeezing the best out of the bullets and rifle I would want to see a range of charge levels at a full calibre depth on the shank seating and get some results to tweak seating either side of the best

    for stats alone a five shot group is more useful
    I personally use three shots for the purposes of seeing what a charge level potential is
    I am far too tight to be wasting more bullets chasing groups
    especially if you can clearly see the patterns

  7. #7
    Agree with the above. 3 or 5 shots better for load development. You can often shoot the first two touching and something as simple as moving your cheek of the stock and re-positioning causes enough parallax shift to alter POI for the third. Also, if three are fired in quick succession, slight changes in position plus something as simple as the barrel heating up may also cause differences. To be sure, it wouldn't hurt in repeating a few more groups of at least 3 shots. Also (as I learned today) if neck tension isn't consistent, this can have a marked effect on velocity hence POI. I was shooting with some twice fired brass I hadn't annealed today and I know the loads were spot on (RCBS tuned 10-10 scale plus trickler) but the ES was still over 25fps measured by the chrony. That in itself may cause grouping issues. Two bullets touching is good, but until other variables are checked or some more statistically relevant groups are shot, the only real conclusions you can draw is that's a dead deer at 100yds with either group.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by big ears View Post
    I can see why you say that but don't agree. As the shooter and rifle are the same and so was the day time and weather the only variable is the bullet. I agree it is a small sample but the likely hood of this occurring by chance is very small, there is little doubt in my mind that the partitions shoot better at this load.What is interesting is the widely different POI compared to POA and this is what surprised me most
    No offense, but you haven't spent enough time shooting for statistical data collection if you think that the chance of the group size difference being random is small. I shoot 50 or 100 rounds with a bullet before deciding whether it shoots better than another. You may indeed be correct that the Partitions shoot the best of the two but your test didn't support that in any manner other than coincidence.

    In any event, both represent a dead deer, that's for sure.~Muir

  9. #9
    Changing to a different Bullet I fire a few groups. Often the barrel needs a few shots with the same bullet to get consistent. Going back to the old bullet...same thing.
    edi

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by bewsher500 View Post

    its interesting but not conclusive of anything other than finding an accuracy node for the partition in that rifle
    i suppose this is my point. I always believed that once a node was found that another similar bullet would behave roughly the same. In this case it clearly doesn't and to my mind quite dramatically as the POI is 3" different let alone the group size.
    As to comments about barrel heating up all of these shots were taken with at least 2 minutes between shots and also alternating between bullets to minimise affect of fowling. Nosler bullets are expensive so I stopped shooting when two touched as at 1 a bullet I prefer them to hit live quarry not paper!!
    everyones comments are true and I take no offence by them. But use this illustration to show effect the bullet may have on grouping and accuracy. All 180gr bullets are not the same and therefore behave differently.

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