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Thread: Liberal Hypocrisy

  1. #1

    Liberal Hypocrisy

    Listening to BBC Radio 4 the other day I received the benefit of one of the most glaring examples of the hypocrisy of the liberal mind I think I have ever heard. The program had some intellectual types, an author and some others blathering on.

    The author, his book being serialised on the Beeb, “The Death Of America” IIRC he was going on about the death rate of youths in America's inner city ghettos particularly, but he covered the ground from a young boy who accidentally shot himself with his father’s unsecured, loaded, pistol to the appalling gang turf war slaughter in inner cities. It was clear that his solution was the removal of all firearms. They were the cause of all the trouble. He ended up saying “Do you love your second amendment more than you love your kids?”

    Then the subject moved on to South Africa. He (I think it was the same man) described a township there where white Boers had gathered to run what was effectively an apartheid town but without black residents, which they viewed as their failure in apartheid that they relied upon black labour. This venture was held in some contempt by the speaker, clearly as apartheid and (white) racism was the major problem in South Africa’s history. (I also found it ironic that he said that white down and outs, druggies, junkies, and losers, made their way to this place to get back on their feet, get some money together before leaving as if this was a failing instead of a chance to go somewhere to get their lives back on track)

    Something was bothering me about this. The anti-gun stance was no surprise, but there was something else and I went in search on the net.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._homicide_rate

    USA Intentional Homicides per 100,000 of population in 2013
    = 3.9 (three point nine) per 100,000 of population, total 12,253. (Population about 319 million)

    South Africa Intentional Homicides per 100,000 of population in 2014
    = 33 (Thirty three) per 100,000 of population, total 17,805.(Population about 53 million)

    Not one word about removing firearms from the South African population. Apparently it's only in America that guns that cause evil.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Shootist View Post
    Listening to BBC Radio 4 the other day I received the benefit of one of the most glaring examples of the hypocrisy of the liberal mind I think I have ever heard. The program had some intellectual types, an author and some others blathering on.

    The author, his book being serialised on the Beeb, “The Death Of America” IIRC he was going on about the death rate of youths in America's inner city ghettos particularly, but he covered the ground from a young boy who accidentally shot himself with his father’s unsecured, loaded, pistol to the appalling gang turf war slaughter in inner cities. It was clear that his solution was the removal of all firearms. They were the cause of all the trouble. He ended up saying “Do you love your second amendment more than you love your kids?”

    Then the subject moved on to South Africa. He (I think it was the same man) described a township there where white Boers had gathered to run what was effectively an apartheid town but without black residents, which they viewed as their failure in apartheid that they relied upon black labour. This venture was held in some contempt by the speaker, clearly as apartheid and (white) racism was the major problem in South Africa’s history. (I also found it ironic that he said that white down and outs, druggies, junkies, and losers, made their way to this place to get back on their feet, get some money together before leaving as if this was a failing instead of a chance to go somewhere to get their lives back on track)

    Something was bothering me about this. The anti-gun stance was no surprise, but there was something else and I went in search on the net.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._homicide_rate

    USA Intentional Homicides per 100,000 of population in 2013
    = 3.9 (three point nine) per 100,000 of population, total 12,253. (Population about 319 million)

    South Africa Intentional Homicides per 100,000 of population in 2014
    = 33 (Thirty three) per 100,000 of population, total 17,805.(Population about 53 million)

    Not one word about removing firearms from the South African population. Apparently it's only in America that guns that cause evil.
    I think thats probably because at best South Africa is a Third World country and worse bordering a war zone......

    Its like comparing Syria to UAE.

    Whilst I agree with your points the Seppo's attitudes to firearms are somewhat looser than ours, particularly when it comes to storage and such like. I find it best to just switch channels if anything gun related comes on regarding the USA.

  3. #3
    The Liberal attitude is what's going to kill the human race, I fear
    A Man should be wise, but never too wise. He who does not know his fate in advance is free of care

  4. #4
    The US homicide rate also never seems to have any proper breakdown of what's actually happening. To quote Brookings, a Washington policy research institution about gun deaths in the US:

    "The firearm homicide rate among black men aged 20-29 is about 89 per 100,000.To put that fact in some international perspective, in Honduras—the country with the highest recorded homicide rate—there were 90.4 intentional murders per 100,000 people in 2012. That includes all means, not just firearm homicides."

    If you exclude shootings where the perpetrator was black (which is about half of them I think, looking at FBI data), the US homicide rate for the rest of the population also falls significantly.

    If you then exclude suicides from the rest of the numbers, you get rid of 70-80% of the remaining gun deaths. It may still be a problem, but it stops looking like a specific problem of homicides caused purely by guns, which is how the liberal media exclusively chooses to portray it. I have heard one talking head say that victims are far more likely to be black, and thus conclude that guns are racist - but this prat failed to mention that the shooter is also black in around 90% of those cases.

    If you won't confront the actual facts because your political ideology forbids it, you generally can't solve the problem. Whilst this may be a difficult subject, just ignoring the facts because they don't fit with the media's liberal narrative in favour of going "guns are bad mmmkay" is tiresome at best.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by tikka_madras View Post
    The US homicide rate also never seems to have any proper breakdown of what's actually happening. To quote Brookings, a Washington policy research institution about gun deaths in the US:

    "The firearm homicide rate among black men aged 20-29 is about 89 per 100,000.To put that fact in some international perspective, in Honduras—the country with the highest recorded homicide rate—there were 90.4 intentional murders per 100,000 people in 2012. That includes all means, not just firearm homicides."

    If you exclude shootings where the perpetrator was black (which is about half of them I think, looking at FBI data), the US homicide rate for the rest of the population also falls significantly.

    If you then exclude suicides from the rest of the numbers, you get rid of 70-80% of the remaining gun deaths. It may still be a problem, but it stops looking like a specific problem of homicides caused purely by guns, which is how the liberal media exclusively chooses to portray it. I have heard one talking head say that victims are far more likely to be black, and thus conclude that guns are racist - but this prat failed to mention that the shooter is also black in around 90% of those cases.

    If you won't confront the actual facts because your political ideology forbids it, you generally can't solve the problem. Whilst this may be a difficult subject, just ignoring the facts because they don't fit with the media's liberal narrative in favour of going "guns are bad mmmkay" is tiresome at best.

    Are you really trying to suggest that you can strip out the black deaths because they don't count?

  6. #6
    I dont see his point as they dont count. I see it as the gang related deaths are usually illegal guns with criminals killing each other. The idea of removing legal firearms will not remove gun crime. The fact of the matter is the high murder rate is a social problem. The black lives matter campaign is a false agenda with all but i believe one of the campaigned against shootings being perfectly legal against armed criminals with a record of violent offences. When young men are gunned down by other young men in Chicago tonight we will not see a media campaign. The statistics and media are being played to support a political agenda. With the Obama administration sending government representatives to the funerals of criminals killed in legal shootings whilst failing to provide the same for police officers killed whilst on duty. This is a case of the left wing jumping on the band wagon. When all the proof shows us that what needs to happen is the fragmentation of these ghettos projects whatever you wish to call them.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by McKenzie View Post
    Are you really trying to suggest that you can strip out the black deaths because they don't count?
    No, I thought I was being fairly explicit. I'm saying that there is a very serious problem with homicides perpetrated by black people in the US, and where the victims are also mainly black. It is getting on for an order of magnitude worse than for any other race as far as I can see from the actual government stats. I'm saying that the actual US gun deaths figure cited does not uniformly affect all people - some are very much more likely to shoot and be shot than others. I'm saying that blanket scaremongering based on single numbers is foolish and doesn't reflect the reality on the ground.

    Now, those insanely high homicide rates might well be driven by causative factors like alienation, lack of money, educational opportunities, police brutality, lawless poorer neighbourhoods etc. But to properly analyse the issue and come up with sensible policies you'd need to look at the exact issue which is 'who is shooting whom with what' and look for trends - of which there will be many - and potential solutions to address those. You might find, for example, that 80% of the murders in cities were committed with illegal handguns in a handful of poorer districts. You might conclude that additional laws on legal gun availability will do little or nothing to reduce the vast majority of those.

    But that would require acknowledging some very obvious difficult issues which the liberal media simply cannot do. They instead choose to portray this as a simple problem purely with legal guns and simply can't get their precious little heads around the idea that it might not be just guns that are driving the issue because to do so means having to confront some very unpleasant truths on the way which they are conditioned to ignore.

  8. #8
    Spare a thought for the genocide going on in South Africa - makes the US look tame. Whites/ white farmers are being murdered at a rate of something like 100 per 100 000 annually.
    Last edited by takbok; 28-09-2016 at 18:35.

  9. #9
    There you go again, spoiling BBC propaganda with "Facts!"
    Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not using it in a fruit salad.

    Amateurs practice until they get it right. Professionals practice until they never get it wrong.

  10. #10
    The "homicide" numbers are not murders. A great number of those killed with firearms are in self-defense, even criminals killing other criminals who are trying to rob or injure them. In these urban areas, the vast majority of those killed were criminals who had it coming.

    Violent crime had actually declined by 75% in the USA until Obama took office. It has increased about 25% nationwide, but that number is skewed by increases in cities like Chicago (2,100 shootings so far this year and 500 fatalities ) and Baltimore ( murders up 63% in 2016 over 2015 ).

    Another interesting number is that there have been 25 "mass shootings" in the last decade in the USA, and 25 in the EU, which has much stricter control of firearms. Of the 25 in the USA, 20 were by Muslim terrorists. In the EU, I think it was 23, as of last week.

    There are about 2,500,000 crimes stopped by armed civilians. Last week, a Muslim who was killing people at a shopping mall in Minnesota was shot dead by an off-duty policeman, carrying his handgun with a civilian permit. Shortly after the Orlando, Florida massacre, a copy cat tried to shoot up a nightclub in South Carolina. A patron with a concealed weapons permit drew and shot the perp in the thigh, stopping that before anyone else was injured. But the news media walks away from those stories.

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