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Thread: Unlawful restrictions on FAC?

  1. #1

    Thumbs up Unlawful restrictions on FAC?

    I've recently put in for a variation on my licence for stalking as it was initially issued for target use only.
    My FEO has now granted me Stalking on my licence but stated that I was restricted to the use of my rifle/s STRICTLY on the nominated land on my ticket. So I can only shoot my rifle on the one farm I have. Now I have a freind in Hampshire which I try to get out with whenever I can. He has an estate and two farms. I asked the FEO if I could now shoot my own rifle on his shooting permissions as his guest. He stated NO !!! I am restricted to the land on my ticket and not allowed to use my own rifle. I would still have to borrow my friends rifle if I wanted to shoot on his permission. I am NOT allowed to use my own.
    Doubting this I downloaded the Home Office guidelines and it appears he's wrong.
    My interpretation of the home office paper is that once he grants me Stalking on my FAC then I'm entitled to shoot on any land to which I have permission to shoot, even if that's merely verbal or otherwise.The only restriction on that is that the land has to be pre approved for the calibre I'm shooting by the chief officer. The difference being an 'open' ticket doesn't need the pre approved land and is left to the shooters discretion. So in effect I'm on a closed ticket but not to the restrictions he's just invented.

    Source

    Page 106,107 and Appendix 3 page 233 of the Home Office Guide to Firearms Licencing.

    I thought I'd fire it out to you guys and get your take on it before I speak to him.

    Thanks in advance

  2. #2
    I always think it is worth going through your shooting organisation for anything like this. They often know who to talk to and can oftentimes sort things out with a phone call.

    The exact wording on your certificate would also be handy for those folks on here that know the law better than I to determine the exact restriction

    Geoff


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  3. #3
    I disagree
    no reason why you should involve a third party especially one that involves a lawyer

    you are correct, the restriction is unnecessary possibly unlawful

    put it in writing, explain the Ho guidance, detail why this is unnecessary and does nothing to restrict risk or increase safety (which is their only concern after security).

    explain that you do not wish to take this further and would welcome the chance to discuss this.
    code for "change it or else"

  4. #4
    As above couldn't have said it better myself

  5. #5
    A person wishing to shoot over land should nominate in their application a specific area ofland over which they intend to or have permission to shoot (this does not restrict their ability toshoot elsewhere where permission is also given)

    straight lift from the HO paper.

  6. #6
    This is what the wording that should be on my FAC (which is still with the FEO since June) according to the HO paper:

    The *calibre RIFLE/COMBINATION/SMOOTH-BORE GUN/SOUND MODERATOR andammunition shall be used for shooting vermin including fox, and ground game/ deer (delete asappropriate) and any other lawful quarry, and for zeroing-practice on ranges, on land deemedsuitable by the chief officer of police for the area where the land is situated and over which theholder has lawful authority to shoot.
    (The words underlined may be omitted once the certificate holder has demonstrated competence.There is No set time for this and each case should be considered on its individual merits).

    He also tells me I have to wait 5 years to get an open ticket. Just make up your own rules !!

  7. #7
    HO guidelines are not law, they are as the title suggests, guidelines, until tested in law they are just recommendations. I'd wait and see what your licence comes back with in terms of wording, the whole licensing process is about you justifying your suitability to do what you want, if you can justify something, they have to give a good reason why you shouldn't, if they put overly restrictive conditions on, you can challenge them, but you'll need to justify your challenge, not just quote HO guidelines. A well structured email/letter outlining all the reasons for why you deem your situation necessary should be all that's required. If after all that then the likes of BASC or SACS etc will fight your corner.
    Opinions are like arseholes....... we all have them, and most of them stink

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by bewsher500 View Post
    I disagree
    no reason why you should involve a third party especially one that involves a lawyer

    you are correct, the restriction is unnecessary possibly unlawful

    put it in writing, explain the Ho guidance, detail why this is unnecessary and does nothing to restrict risk or increase safety (which is their only concern after security).

    explain that you do not wish to take this further and would welcome the chance to discuss this.
    code for "change it or else"
    We are obliged to follow the law, and we accept that for the privelege of having our shooting, but when certain police forces decide to ignore home office guidance and try to make up their own laws it gets really annoying, but we have to follow their rules to keep our firearms , definately agree with bewsher500 dont just accept it,personally I would send an email as described by bewsher, but would also inform your FEO that a copy of said email has been sent to the home office department responsible for firearms licencing, or tell them that if you do not get a reply within days you will send said email to the home office dept
    luckily my area , police scotland, perth and kinross, has a great attitude toward shooters and it annoys me when I see posts like this, good luck and hope this gets resolved quickly and ammicably
    Cheers
    Ray

  9. #9
    You are right .308 they are recommendations written for forces to follow so there is continuity in licencing and individuals are not discriminated against. They are not written in statute. I will have to do some more research but that's also a double edge sword any restrictions put in my licence which which are not a part of statute law and not following HO guidlines ..what makes them lawful?? It's an intresting one....I feel a stated case is in the making.
    Yes I will wait until I see the wording, but I'm just going from what he tells me at the moment.

  10. #10
    First things first, have you actually got your fac with the wording restricting your use to named land?
    Secondly FEOs do not have the authority to condition or restrict your fac that is the licencing managers job
    I'm with Northants and you will probably find that if you do not already have your fac it will come back with the very wording you stated in a previous post.
    Some of the Northants FEOs like to flex a bit of muscle but remember they can only advise the firearms licencing manager

    Ian

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