12inch barrel and folding stock?

phillips321

Well-Known Member
Hi guys,

I've got a 12 inch barrel on my ruger 10/22 to make vehicle shooting easier.

The overall length is greater than 24 inches and it currently has a fixed hogue stock.

If I buy and use a folding stock and when folded the rifle is under 24inches am I breaking the law?

I've done a little research and there is no definitive answer as to if the overall measurement includes the folded state.

If someone is going to answer with; "if the gun is capable of firing when the stock is folded...." then I must state that the gun is also capable of firing with no stock at all, which is quickly removable with a single screw. This is clearly a grey area and there is no clear message in home office guidance to police.

Does anyone care to offer up some hard evidence either way?

Thanks in advance
 
What i'm getting at is the rifle is not designed to be fired without a stock, just like it's not designed to be fired when a folded stock is folded, but it can be in both circumstances.

Thanks
 
What i'm getting at is the rifle is not designed to be fired without a stock, just like it's not designed to be fired when a folded stock is folded, but it can be in both circumstances.

Thanks
and in both cases I think you would be breaking the overall length requirement.
from the guidance
3.7
In terms of measurement, section 57 (6) of the Firearms Act 1968 makes provision for the
barrel to be measured from the muzzle to the point at which the charge is exploded on
firing. In measuring the overall length, any detachable, folding, retractable or other movable
butt-stock should be disregarded in accordance with section 5(8) of the 1968 Act.
 
Minimum barrel length for a rifle is 12" and minimum overall length is 24".
This means you can have folding stocks as long as the firearm is no shorter than the minimum 24".
High-capacity shotguns are governed by the overall lengths in place for other shotguns.
Therefore minimum barrel length is 24" and minimum OAL is 40".
http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=235

 
In measuring the overall length, any detachable, folding, retractable or other movable
butt-stock should be disregarded in accordance with section 5(8) of the 1968 Act.

And once again the British law leaves grey areas.... my stock is detachable in about 5 seconds with a single screw, thus why is this included in the measurement?

I know I'm playing devil's advocate, but these laws which are open to interpretation can lead to someone unintentionally breaking them. In my eyes there is no such thing as 'common sense' in a court of law.
 
The issue is that if the rifle CAN be shortened to less than 24 inches then it is illegal (Section 5) and you are commiting an offence. The law doesn't necessarily make sense but personally I would not risk 5 years in clink, the confiscation and loss of my firearms and the permanant revocation of my FAC and SGC just to argue the toss in court.

Feel free to try it yourself but if you do intend to try I would suggest that you contact your shooting organisation first to see if they would be prepared to fund a legal case before you take any action. :eek:
 
In terms of measurement, section 57 (6) of the Firearms Act 1968 makes provision for the
barrel to be measured from the muzzle to the point at which the charge is exploded on
firing. In measuring the overall length, any detachable, folding, retractable or other movable
butt-stock should be disregarded in accordance with section 5(8) of the 1968 Act.

Butt-Stock is the section rear of the pistol grip. It is this part that is referred to, if it is removable or can be reduced in length then it can make a firearm illegal in length.
Removing the whole stock is making it impractical to use, or to conceal and then use quickly.
It is the concealing that is the issue.
 
Any folding part of the stock doesn't count if it can still be operated when folded. As for "it works with no stock", that comes under "disassembled firearm"

The 12/24 rule is why my folding trg has a 14" barrel to keep the folded length over 24"
3372c1497510c30f49c2e887548922f3.jpg
 
and in both cases I think you would be breaking the overall length requirement.
from the guidance
3.7
In terms of measurement, section 57 (6) of the Firearms Act 1968 makes provision for the
barrel to be measured from the muzzle to the point at which the charge is exploded on
firing. In measuring the overall length, any detachable, folding, retractable or other movable butt-stock should be disregarded in accordance with section 5(8) of the 1968 Act.

And once again the British law leaves grey areas.... my stock is detachable in about 5 seconds with a single screw, thus why is this included in the measurement?

I know I'm playing devil's advocate, but these laws which are open to interpretation can lead to someone unintentionally breaking them. In my eyes there is no such thing as 'common sense' in a court of law.

Where is the grey area?? The legislation clearly states butt-stock not stock or full stock, they are referring to exactly what you are describing!
 
And once again the British law leaves grey areas.... my stock is detachable in about 5 seconds with a single screw, thus why is this included in the measurement?

I know I'm playing devil's advocate, but these laws which are open to interpretation can lead to someone unintentionally breaking them. In my eyes there is no such thing as 'common sense' in a court of law.
When you detach your stock, it is classed as a disassembled firearm. Same as taking the 14" barrel off my trg, it's still a licencible part, but not illegal to hold even though its under 24".
The rest of the rifle is then under 24", but again, it's legal as it is disassembled.

Removing the stock, is only temporary, for the purposes of cleaning etc, if you remove the stock that makes your 10-22 under 24", and USE it, then yes, you are in breach of the firearms act, but realistically, could you actually use it like that ? No, the pins will fall out, the trigger then falls out, so practically, no.
 
One option if it's going to be used with a moderator anyway, is to have the moderator as part of the barrel.

I doub't it's particularly difficult to counter bore the end of a longer barrel to accept some standard .22 moderator internals.


Cheers





Clive
 
N
One option if it's going to be used with a moderator anyway, is to have the moderator as part of the barrel.

I doub't it's particularly difficult to counter bore the end of a longer barrel to accept some standard .22 moderator internals.


Cheers





Clive


Been done lots of whoop ha with proof house etc

Or you can lengthen the fore end to give 600mm when folded which is what I have done for my HMR in an AI folding stock with the factory 14" barrel (out of stock length 500mm) its 25mm short of legal in the std AI but I was making the chassis I extended the square tube beyond the barrel 615mm OAL the moderator when fitted is fwds of the stock so looks ok



My 10/22 has a 12.5" barrel and currently can't legally have a folding stock just a collapsible AR one so can be made plenty short enough .
 
Saw a rifle Jackson Rifles made with a short barrel in a folding Choate stock. Crafty thing was the minimum OAL length is the longest dimension. With the stock folded that worked out to be from the muzzle to bottom corner of the pistol grip, not from muzzle to butt stock hinge. He'd also inlet the stock forend to take a T8. Folded it was very compact and bijous.

Wolfie
 
And once again the British law leaves grey areas.... my stock is detachable in about 5 seconds with a single screw, thus why is this included in the measurement?

I know I'm playing devil's advocate, but these laws which are open to interpretation can lead to someone unintentionally breaking them. In my eyes there is no such thing as 'common sense' in a court of law.
What you describe is not "detatcable", it's "removeable". I can remove the exhaust from my car by just undoing a couple of bolts and unhooking it, but it's not "detatchable".
 
the law is clear and has been clarified in court through precedent YOU WOULD BE IN THE WRONG. that is why the pistols have the wire extension welded. Because you can unscrew it does not make it legal for you to do so IT IS ILLEGAL TO CONVERT A FIREARM IN THIS MATTER. The Randy Weaver incident that led to the BATF killing a mans wife and child was started through people messing with the law and interpreting it for there own use with no legal understanding of the consequence
 
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