Accidental Discharges

I don’t think there is any such creature as an "accidental discharge" .I was always led to believe it is a "negligent discharge".

Dry Powder.

Barry
 
It doesn't surprise me at all...but it does shock me rigid.

A few years ago I told an armed copper off for his muzle awareness at Birmingham airport...it didn't go down well. :eek:
 
Barry has it correct, & are these people that are set above us & supposed to regulate us taken to task over these incidents, It seems not, as it takes a f.o.i request to bring them into the daylight, also what happened to the two remaining forces that haven't replied / answered the f.o.i requests?:eek:
 
Do these Police (marksmen;)) get taken off firearms duties when this happens or are they still allowed to PLAY with there equipment...........................
 
This quote got me thinking:

"A diplomatic protection officer shot himself in the leg getting into a car by mistake in September 2007."

Would he have shot himself if he had meant to get into another vehicle instead? :confused:


 
30% of these incidents in NI is of no surprise to me. The standard of handling I have seen here has been appalling.

I got into stonking row with a cop at a check point one night, six or seven years ago. The muzzle of his MP5 was pointing right into my car where the wife and kids were. I asked him nicely to point it elsewhere. When he failed to do this, I told him to take it to f**k somewhere else, he was not very pleased. Thought I was going to get arrested.

The numbers of guns lost and unaccounted for is scary. We had an armourer over here last year managed to get a compo claim after he shot himself in the hand, because there was no "supervision" in place. In another incident about two years ago a bunch of lads from a target shooting went to use a military range in Ballykinler. In one of the butts they found an MP5 which had been left there a few days earlier by a bunch of cops on a training day.
 
30% of these incidents in NI is of no surprise to me. The standard of handling I have seen here has been appalling.

I got into stonking row with a cop at a check point one night, six or seven years ago. The muzzle of his MP5 was pointing right into my car where the wife and kids were. I asked him nicely to point it elsewhere. When he failed to do this, I told him to take it to f**k somewhere else, he was not very pleased. Thought I was going to get arrested.

The numbers of guns lost and unaccounted for is scary. We had an armourer over here last year managed to get a compo claim after he shot himself in the hand, because there was no "supervision" in place.
In another incident about two years ago a bunch of lads from a target shooting went to use a military range in Ballykinler. In one of the butts they found an MP5 which had been left there a few days earlier by a bunch of cops on a training day.
Just shows how their standards are allowed to fall below our own, we sweep/check both the firing points and the butts when our club uses any range, AND also any other points that may have been used by others whilst we are on site.
 
It doesn't surprise me at all...but it does shock me rigid.

If you really want to feel a cold chill running through you then read the IPCC report into the TVP incident: http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/tvpshooting.pdf

Quality Street tin :eek:.....left on porch overnight :eek::eek:

What I can't find out is where this "report" into negligent discharges actually comes from. It's reported in a number of the papers today (Mirror, Mail, Telegraph) but there's no citing of the original source. If you Google on "freedom of information police discharge firearm" you can find a number of the FOI responses, but I can't find who actually compiled the results. It could be a journalist, but out of curiosity I'd be interested to know who requested all this information and why.

willie_gunn
 
Last edited:
In another incident about two years ago a bunch of lads from a target shooting went to use a military range in Ballykinler. In one of the butts they found an MP5 which had been left there a few days earlier by a bunch of cops on a training day.

seriously, you'd be tempted to keep it wouldn't you :evil:


Serious question here - does pointing a loaded weapon at someone not count legally as an assault? unless there is good reason to believe you (or your children etc) may constitute a threat, then I cannot see any justification to do so.
 
In my book there are only ND's. There is absolutely no excuse for them, and if you have one you shouldn't be able to use firearms again. Generally occur because of tiredness and lack of concentration, but alarmingly sometimes because of people "playing about" The police ND's are shocking and there are some coppers who shouldn't have access to firearms! Also those figures aren't including the taser ND's!

During 20 years of working with firearms I have witnessed far too many. When I was a keeper I saw a few.

When I was in the Army I witnessed four people killed when their challenger 2 tank was hit by another after the crew thought it was a dummy tank during a live fire ex.

I witnessed a lynx helicopter let loose a guided missile on a live range exercise at a crew of tank men, luckily they guided it off at the last second. Plus I have seen two more guided missile ND's on ranges.

Once saw a USA pilot, totally ignore range orders after being told the range was closed over the radio, promptly fly up it in his plane and start shooting things up!

Lost count of the amount of ND's that I heard about on guard duty in barracks or on ranges with all manor of weapons guns rifles and explosives. I haven't witnessed any stalking related ND's but have heard first hand of them occurring.

It would be interesting to know how many guns/rifles etc are loaded and unloaded on any one day in the Uk, covering any occupation/activity and the percentage of ND'S that relates to. Or over the same three year period of the police figures.

Labrat

A copper talking to people and his weapon accidentally points at someone is careless and shouldn't happen but not assault. An police officer, putting his hand on his pistol whilst its holster and taking to a suspect, something as little force as that, its a use of force and he must justify it. At the other end of the scale Pointing a weapon at a suspect, safety off and finger on trigger again is a use of force and he must put pen to paper and justify it. Its not assault because he can legally justify his use of force. (hopefully)
 
4 rifle shots and twice with a shotgun to kill a cow in Stockton on Tees!!! What was he using a air rifle and a .410??
 
"A police constable and an acting sergeant blasted a cow eight times with a rifle and four times with a shotgun during a 'humane destruction'"

"Armed officers in the Met Police's respected CO19 unit have accidentally blasted their weapons 56 times"

Blasted journalists...waste of a degree.

fraser
 
Labrat

A copper talking to people and his weapon accidentally points at someone is careless and shouldn't happen but not assault. An police officer, putting his hand on his pistol whilst its holster and taking to a suspect, something as little force as that, its a use of force and he must justify it. At the other end of the scale Pointing a weapon at a suspect, safety off and finger on trigger again is a use of force and he must put pen to paper and justify it. Its not assault because he can legally justify his use of force. (hopefully)

Yes, clearly I'm not talking about inadvertant pointing of muzzle - I think you can imagine exactly which photo I'm thinking of cant you? Weapon raised, loaded, finger at the ready, at two ladies in a car - I think it would be difficult to claim that they fitted the profile of a suspect and therefore was a reasonable/justifiable use of force
 
4 rifle shots and twice with a shotgun to kill a cow in Stockton on Tees!!! What was he using a air rifle and a .410??

I have to say, I was unfortunate enough to witness a case of this some years ago on Tyneside when I were but a lad helping a local keeper, 'bout twenty years ago - Bull trampled and killed a local farmer, police armed response was called in by ambulance crew and vet as they would/could not go into the field.

We're talking full on beef bull here - and the coppers went for a chest shot with 9milli... There must be a foot of pure bloody muscle in the way. four rounds later a head shot clearly was not going to happen with the Bull that was by now more than a little perturbed and the police, being the police, would not accept the assistance of the keeper who had his rifle in the van, nope, had to wait for them to bring in a sniper rifle from Newcastle, with this magnificent beast running around wounded.

'fraid that my trust in police firearms has never recovered from that day really!
 
when I was in the navy doing basic training the first order from GI "never point a weapon at anyone either loaded or unloaded unless you mean to use it, and that includes me". That was over 40 years ago and I can still hear and see him, mind, he was a mean bugger.
 
4 accidental discharges spring to mind that are frightening really but I was there and these things happen more often than we would like to admit.

1) at a pheasant shoot about 15 years ago one of the shooters pulls out this little .22 pistol and it's getting handed about. Bang! off it went right into the chest of a guy but it didn't go through his thick clothing which was amazing. Anyway a lot of swearing and perhaps a lesson or two learned?


2) Bout 12 years ago, A certain private who DL will guess the identity of the second I mention this despite a golden heart was useless and clumsy miss understood the live firing instructions to run 100m to the firing point when the targets pop up, make ready and engage. Oh no what happens.... everyone is running forward including an RCO complete with bright yellow jacket when rounds start zipping past so we all start hitting the deck. At least half a dozen rounds went to target before other RCO was able to stop the muppet. The rifle was out of this hands in a flash then unloaded before the boot went in many many times.

3) another shoot about 10 years ago and we just get over to the stands then out of the blue there was a bang and someone is screaming. We all go running over and this poor old guy had tripped while getting into place with his gun loaded and sent a shot sideways which left pellets in the leg and hip of the next guy up who was now white as a sheet. Old guy packed in because he knew at the end of the day that he was in the wrong and should have known better and could have killed someone.

4) It's getting dark on the foreshore at Southerness 2 seasons ago on a shocking windy night and it's nearly dark with the geese about to start passing. I really had to **** and put the 10 bore flat just beside me and away I go arhhhh. Right then the guy just down from me fires a shot at something and because I'm standing my dog jumps up and unfortunately straight onto the shotgun trigger and boom. Shot went out to sea but the gun ended up behind me and I ****ed all down my leg. I know what I should have done and what could have happened but.....
 
Hi Paul, read your thread and dont see where A D, comes into it . All of them were negligent discharges, if not bloody negligent discharges.

Dry Powder.

Barry
 
Back
Top