AFaW versus AFaW+F. What's the difference?

Unfortunately I've used mine several times both at home and work. Amputations, crush injuries, seizures and ped v car. I find that the training kicks in nae bother when the gloves are off. If you spend your certificated time putting on plasters etc. then I can see the problem but when regularly engaged it's amazing how fresh it stays in your mind.
 
It's one of these things that boils down t the individual ......you can have all the training , but you won't know till it happens wether or not your the type of person who jumps in training kicked in and get on with it ....or the stand in shock kinda person do nothing .....that's not an insult it's just human nature
Fight or flight response ...kinda thing
Seen it happen couple times where trained folk just stand agog!
Others with minimal get into it quick .
Take all the first aid training you can get , it's not a bad thing at all .
And hope you never need it , it it's there if you do & your able to get in there .

Paul
 
Work in a plastics factory hydraulic presses ,tools weighing upto 40 tons,plastic trimmed with stanley knives and side cutters ,oily floors working at heights the whole 9 yards.Crush injury ,blunt force trauma ,heart attacks .In 21 years ive seen skinned hands ,burns encased in plastic which eats skin ,crush injury drilled hands people knocked out cold by steel hanging bars the list is endless as you say Paul you deal with it or you go home.
To me sorry +F is a money spinner there,s no plus Plastics but it,s a dangerous place fingers ripped out ,people having there skin removed abs is heated to 250 deg c it will kill you.
40 tons of steel squashes your finger to nowt ,hydraulic presses remove your fingers+ tendons and leave you a quivering wreck to get to hospital.As Paul says take any training they give but sorry no extra this that the other a first aider should be able to deal with you not say oops i havent been trained in that
 
Work in a plastics factory hydraulic presses ,tools weighing upto 40 tons,plastic trimmed with stanley knives and side cutters ,oily floors working at heights the whole 9 yards.Crush injury ,blunt force trauma ,heart attacks .In 21 years ive seen skinned hands ,burns encased in plastic which eats skin ,crush injury drilled hands people knocked out cold by steel hanging bars the list is endless as you say Paul you deal with it or you go home.
To me sorry +F is a money spinner there,s no plus Plastics but it,s a dangerous place fingers ripped out ,people having there skin removed abs is heated to 250 deg c it will kill you.
40 tons of steel squashes your finger to nowt ,hydraulic presses remove your fingers+ tendons and leave you a quivering wreck to get to hospital.As Paul says take any training they give but sorry no extra this that the other a first aider should be able to deal with you not say oops i havent been trained in that

It's a bit of an over simplification to say that a first aid course will cover you for everything. Otherwise what is the point of faaw vs efaw vs fpos-i.

All these courses teach skills, some teach more than others. I have no experience of the +f but I do know that the efaw I did, didn't go into much depth of catastrophic haemorrhage etc.
 
snip... the list is endless as you say Paul you deal with it or you go home.
To me sorry +F is a money spinner there,s no plus Plastics but it,s a dangerous place fingers ripped out ,people having there skin removed abs is heated to 250 deg c it will kill you.

snip...

As Paul says take any training they give but sorry no extra this that the other a first aider should be able to deal with you not say oops i havent been trained in that

As you say the list is endless of the possible ways people manage to injure themselves... whether it is + Plastics or + power hammers and handling 200kg of 1200˚C steel as in my case. So no course can cover you for every eventuality.

But your "+F is a money spinner" and "sorry no extra" bit I don't understand. Why is it an advantage to refuse any knowledge?

Or do you mean that the lone worker +F stuff should be included in the standard EFAW course syllabus?

I gathered that the FC were concerned that the basis of many EFAW procedures were often based on other people in the area of the workplace, you treating somebody else with possible assistance from others...shout for help...they go and get the defibrillator whilst you maintain the pumping.

Stalking, our most likely injuries are going to be a severe cut or a twisted ankle. The further away from help whether stalking or working solo, the more systems you should put in place before you leave. Knowing about tourniquets, pressure pads or homeostatic sponges (and having one with you) is also an advantage.

If you have a heart attack, stroke or pass out which is what a lot of the EFAW seems to centred around you are basically up the Swanee if you are alone.

Alan
 
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Or do you mean that the lone worker +F stuff should be included in the standard EFAW course syllabus?





Alan


That bit for me. The cause of the injury is irrelevant, it's the extent that matters.

After some further digging it turns out that not all EFaW are even recognised by certain bodies although I doubt the course work varies, more a case that organisations are not affiliated with industry bodies.

If there's ever a case for something being standardised.....
 
That bit for me. The cause of the injury is irrelevant, it's the extent that matters.

After some further digging it turns out that not all EFaW are even recognised by certain bodies although I doubt the course work varies, more a case that organisations are not affiliated with industry bodies.

If there's ever a case for something being standardised.....

I understood the EFAW was standard HSE, but the +F bit was the yet-to-be-recognised by anyone other than the FC part.

The man from crtmedical.co.uk that taught the NCDMG EFAW+F course said that they had developed the +F bit with the FC which is why not every course provider offers it.

The seperate +F certificate says that I have...

"...in addition to an Emergency First Aid at Work award, also been trained in subjects relating to outdoor and forestry work in line with recommendations from the Forestry Commission first aid policy.

Additional Syllabus Includes:

Incident management, Crush Issues, Insects, Limb Injury, Severe Bleeds, Head and Spine Issues, Hypo/Hyperthermia, Monitoring, Minor Injury, PPE Removal, Scene Issues, First Aid Equipment...."

Alan
 
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There is a load of info on Lymes disease given in part f that is not in Efaw

Tick removal should be the only part I would've thought. Any symptoms will not manifest for a couple of days in which case it's a GP's job.
 
I actually meant the first aid course should cover all the basics as it used to ,and adding +this+this is a money spinner .The course used to do fractures and bandages for various nasty injuries.As i said Alan mirroring what Paul said take any training they give but FAAW should cover a spectrum not a narrow field .
There,s a few of us work in dangerous places and training should reflect this not be generic.Five day course is now 2.5 as so much has been reduced in focus that affects us all day to day.I didnt mean to imply extra training wasn,t needed but did mean the course should cover trauma needing T,Q,s and falls and broken bones.atb
 
I don't think the +F costs any extra compard to just the EFAW course, end of the day still just a days course so still just 1 days instruction to pay for only difference is the course content.

I've done some 1st aid training previously and can remember a lot of it, i found the course was quite common sense really to stop bleeding etc and pretty much anything goes, i think tourniquiets are not usually mentioned in the normal course as usually u can get help and response times are fairly quick. But if i was starting from scratch with zero 1st aid knowledge there is a lot of stuff to take in

The thing i came away with most, was just how little u can do and how f**ked u are if anything major happens and ur outwith phone signal, even if stalking in pairs u can be pretty screwed if u can't get a signal.

Not wanting to go off on a tangent and not knocking 1st aid courses as its always a good thing but the course is so broad and covers so many serious life threatening issues u can't possibly cover it all in a day.
For me it would make far more sense if FC made u carry a PLB or sat phone as thats the thing that really will save lifes esp now with more air ambulances
 
I actually meant the first aid course should cover all the basics as it used to ,and adding +this+this is a money spinner .The course used to do fractures and bandages for various nasty injuries.As i said Alan mirroring what Paul said take any training they give but FAAW should cover a spectrum not a narrow field .
There,s a few of us work in dangerous places and training should reflect this not be generic.Five day course is now 2.5 as so much has been reduced in focus that affects us all day to day.I didnt mean to imply extra training wasn,t needed but did mean the course should cover trauma needing T,Q,s and falls and broken bones.atb

Fair enough, I see you were more concerned with the syllabus content included than the cost factor. I agree that probably the most useful bit for me was the +F bit, I am self employed solo working with occasional assistance from journey men who are young and fit and not likely to have a heart attack.

According to their website the CRT medical people will tailor the EFAW course to suit the workplace. The +F bit was included in the price from the outset. The cost of the whole EFAW+F day was £46 up front but then as we fielded more than the minimum number of students we each had a bit of money back. It was very reasonable because Erik of the NCDMG provided the venue.

snip...
The thing i came away with most, was just how little u can do and how f**ked u are if anything major happens and ur outwith phone signal, even if stalking in pairs u can be pretty screwed if u can't get a signal.

snip...

Self treatment for a crushed pelvis is pretty much a non starter. Even with a cell phone signal outdoors or just working in the larder the thing that stuck with me was the need to stop the bleeding from a bad cut...even if you can get medical assistance within twenty minutes you need to do something yourself instantly. I have been keeping a haemostatic sponge and a pressure pad with my butchers knives and one with the chain saw kit and take one in the back pouch of my stalking jacket since the course!

Alan
 
Yes understand the haemostatic sponge and pad i carry a first aid kit and T.Q with me as stalking alone im 2 miles from the farmhouse and the nearest town with ambulance/rescue services is 5 miles away so if i drop a clod there,s only me myself and i to sort it out and ive been cutting up using those metal gloves butcher,s use.Only got 1 set of fingers and want to keep them :thumb:
 
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