Conscientious Doctor Objector (SCOTLAND)

tumbleweed

Well-Known Member
My Dads Firearms Certificate is Up Last week Of March 2017
He made an appointment with his Doctors Practice In a Town outside Glasgow on 23 December 2016,
His Doctor made it very clear when my father handed him his letter that Police Scotland had sent him to pass to him that He Is A Conscientious Objector to All Guns Of Every Kind, My Dad said that he had No Problem with this But How Was He To Get Marker Put On His Medical Record and Assessment Done?
Doctor C Printed off a Compliments Slip with Dads Name Etc and wrote on it Unable to Complete SHOTGUN CERTIFICATE FORM!! And SIGNED IT, (It was actually his Firearms Certificate, that form was about, shows you how diligent Dr C was?) and He Gave Back The Original Form To My Dad Without Sending it on.
On 29th December 2016, He contacted a Shooting Association that he and i are members of and left a message explaining what happened.
Friday 30th December 2016 he received a call back from assoc stating that most of the FEOs are still on holiday but as soon as they can he will contact the Inspector to see what can be done.
Friday 6th Jan 2017 Dad contacted the association again to find out if any updates and his next route of getting his assessment done.
Monday 9th Jan Dad Received a message to say that the association was still waiting to hear from Police Scotland.
Tuesday 17th Jan My Dad contacted association again to say that time was going by and what is his next step in dealing with this issue, Does He Contact FEO and let them know about whats going on, Does He try and pay for Certificate????what????
Tuesday 17th Jan Association contacted Dad to let him know that they were awaiting feedback from Police Scotland.
Friday 20th Jan Association said that Inspector K had been notified and Dad had to await feedback?????
Friday 27th Jan 2017, Dad went to see another Doctor at his Practice a Dr S, He explained situation with other Dr being a conscientious objector and that he now has to try and see the other doctors to see about filling in this piece of paper, well Dr S said that he will check with Senior Partners at the Practice and get back to him as quick as he can.
Thursday 2nd Feb, Dad got phone call from Dr S stating that he had contacted the Senior Partners and both had stated that at a meeting a while back it was AGREED BY THEM THAT THEY WOULD NOT PARTICIPATE IN TAKING ANYTHING TO DO WITH FIREARMS LICENCING and that he could not do so either, he suggested maybe Going Private and Get An Assessment Done That Way
Monday 6th Feb, Dad attended Doctors on another matter and was Handed The Paperwork Back That He Had Asked Doctors To Fill In.....
Wednesday 15th Feb, Dad contacted Various Practices All Around The Town To be Told That None Would Participate, considering That Police Scotland had said that There Is Only About 8 Doctors Not Participating Then Somebody Somewhere Has There Figures VERY VERY WRONG....
Thursday 16th Feb, Dad has contacted all The Practices In His Town to Be Told That NONE will Deal with Firearms Certificate Renewals or Applications.
Friday 17th Feb, Dad contacted the last of the practices and the Practice Manager asked him to check with his Own Practice Manager as Nobody In The Practices would do an assessment on Person that was not a Patient.
Friday 17th Feb, Dad spoke to his Practice Manager and she stated that there was a meeting last year 2016 and All Practices In and Around the Town were in agreement of Not Dealing with Any Applications.
Friday 23rd Feb, Dad Phoned Police Scotland to be told that they know about his problems but he may have To Ask For 5 Years worth of Medical Records and Go To See A PRIVATE DOCTOR AT ROSS HALL, What the hell, This Will Cost a Fortune,
HAS ANYBODY ANY IDEAS THAT I CAN PASS ONTO MY DAD, MUCH APPRECIATION,
JOSEPH
 
I'm sorry, I have no ideas or advice.
I find it totally disgusting that doctors are allowed to let their personal opinion interfere with professional duties in this way, though. As professionals in a public service role there should be no question of them refusing to carry out a task due to their personal beliefs, which they should set aside in order to serve each and every patient on their register fairly and equally.
 
Write to NHS Scotland and also use the feedback details on the NHS website - they will deal with it as a patient care issue and probably be bale to find you a local who will be more cooperative. Use the word "discriminatory" and all kinds of bells start ringing in the NHS.
 
Whilst I agree fully that the GP and the Practices are setting a very disconcerting precedent by their decision. I wonder if there is something else at play here. This has got to be more than a personal objection to firearms ownership.
 
I may be wrong here but i thought i read that if a Dr doesn't reply after 21? days the polis take that as a green light and procede without it?

It is shocking Dr's can do that (i've just moved towns/Dr's and yet to see a dr and renewals due end of this year) I would look into complaining both to NHS and possibly to the practice manager too.
Like someone said there personal opinion should not be allowed to affect there professional opinon, it is discrimination if it was against a skin colour/creed or sexual persusion the papers would be all over it.

Wot are ur shooting orgs saying to it? Have they got any advice about complaining about Dr's
 
I thought every doctor had access to your medical records. When I went for a medical to renew my driving license last year, it was a locum doctor, who I had never seen before. He just got my records up on the screen, checked my blood pressure, pulse etc and filled in the form.
 
Sounds to me like the doctors are overstepping the mark to put it mildly. They are not being asked to make decisions on whether patients should be allowed guns, they merely have to fill in a form and undertake to inform the police if the patient is mentally ill. That has nothing directly to do with guns. Presumably they wouldn't refuse to treat a gun shop employee as a patient. They should stick to doing their jobs and not seeking to misuse their position to try to prevent lawful activity.
Does the same practice refuse to treat patients who smoke, are fat, unfit, drive diesel cars or eat badly? A letter to the relevant minister detailing the facts of the case and explaining that the doctors' argument is both bogus (because providing information to the police about mental health in no way impinges on a newfound "conscientious objection", because they don't exercise similar objections to anything else they disapprove of and it's not their job to make moral judgments.₩
 
I may be wrong here but i thought i read that if a Dr doesn't reply after 21? days the polis take that as a green light and procede without it?

I think that's just in Englandshire. Up here its no form no ticket. Still utterly wrong that anyone can be discriminated against however.
 
Its simple,,,,,change to another docters practice,,,,,,, remember they need you as much as you need them,,,and make a point of informing the practice manager why you are leaving
 
Report the doctor to the General Medical Council, he has a duty to find another practioner if he is unable to help on a matter of principle. He is in breach of that duty.

David.
 
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My Dads Firearms Certificate is Up Last week Of March 2017

HAS ANYBODY ANY IDEAS THAT I CAN PASS ONTO MY DAD, MUCH APPRECIATION,
JOSEPH


You are a bit late in the day but your father should write to the Cheif Constable of Police Scotland explaining the situation.
Have a read through this thread https://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/showthread.php/122084-BASC-says-don’t-pay-medical-fee. There is a large amount of info in there that will help and provide you with content for letters to your Doctor, the BMA and SNHS. The thread is a bit slow starting and gets somewhat bogged down until the BASC firearms 'ex-spurt' gives in, but after that there is a lot of information and several links to the BMA which highlight the Doctors responsibilities (which your practicioner appears to be flaunting).

There is no need for your father to go to the expense of paying for a Private Doctor. The issue is getting the mark on your records which if I have understood the latest from the BMA this cannot be refused.
Your shooting Organisation should be helping, if it's the BASC then my experience is that the good Doctor (Colin) isn't interested, however SACS (Craig Stoddart) seemed more attuned and customer focussed and even if you are not members of his organisation I think you should call him as soon as possible.

Don't give in - you are not in the wrong !
 
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Have a read of this - particularly the final paragraph which says that GPs MUST engage in the process of firearms licensing when requested to do so
BMA - Firearms licencing process: support guide
I suggest you go back to your GP practice and challenge them on this point.
If they still refuse, then advise your FEO
Since you are not the person preventing Police Scotland from obtaining their much cherished "medical information" then what will happen is that your application will be reviewed at a higher level within Police Scotland and I bet that the certificate is renewed.

Cheers

Bruce
 
hi just been through the same
3 months of agro went to private doctors
then back to own doctors who I did not no
upshot received licence mid feb £280 lighter
 
Think i'd be writing a very strongly worded letter to the practice to give them a chance to rectify it and if not go to GMC/NHS, ur local MSP

In the meantime i'd get ur dads paper work in even without the dr's bit and mibee sign any shotguns over onto ur certificate and mibee even do the same with rifles (assuming the OP has a gun licence/FAC) althou it will be a lot more complicated with the rifles, but strong chance ur dads licence will not be renewed in time so will save u any hassle with RFD's

I can only see this probelm getting worse and worse as more and more people have absolutley no contact with guns.
Gun ownership is getting harder and harder in this country now with the polis keen to take them off everytime u split up with a bird/partner/wife, don't see them confiscating normal folks kitchen knifes/cars/ glass bottles/glasses off them and yet all will be used to assault folk far more often than guns
 
This is what I meant, report them to the GMC. Or if you think that is a bit drastic, just ask them if you would like you to report them to the GMC. (General Medical Council. GMC | How can the GMC help me with my concern? )

David.

+1,ask who they are passing you onto,quoting there obligation from the guidance.I expect that would be enough,if not then full steam with GMC complaints procedure if nothing else that must be a pain in the arse for a GP!!!!
 
Miki
Your attack on BASC is pointless and unhelpful. Colin and his team have been working hard on this issue at national level and on a case by case basis with members ,please don't start silly attacks, it does not help anyone
 
Fundamentally this a Scottish Government problem, with one agency -the NHS GP service (or whatever it is called) not being prepared to speak with another agency Police Scotland. It's a contractual issue, with one agency not being prepared to act on a requirement of requirements of government.

Now whether the government and / or the police are acting as per the legislation or are Making it up as they go along is another matter.

I did have this conversation with my GP. Medically she is able to comment on whether or not I am being treated for depression or being treated for other diseases that may give rise to depression. She told me that based on the very limited time she spends with most patients, she would be unable to tell whether or not they have major social or behaviour problems.
 
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