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Thread: Roedale Precision Moderators

  1. #1

    Roedale Precision Moderators

    Guys, didn't want to hijack the other thread on small / light mods.

    I have seen the adverts for Pete Lincoln's mods, he makes great claims for them.

    Has anywone tried them out, or seen a decent independent review? I am specifically thinking of a mod lighter than the Jet Z for the 22/250 and the 260rem.

    I would trade of a little sound reduction for a mod that weighs nearly half of the Jet Z.

    What say you?
    Brian.

    Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you......

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Claret_Dabbler View Post
    Guys, didn't want to hijack the other thread on small / light mods.

    I have seen the adverts for Pete Lincoln's mods, he makes great claims for them.

    Has anywone tried them out, or seen a decent independent review? I am specifically thinking of a mod lighter than the Jet Z for the 22/250 and the 260rem.

    I would trade of a little sound reduction for a mod that weighs nearly half of the Jet Z.

    What say you?
    I would suggest you take a look at the new third eye tactical mod,very very nice comapct and light,also will have no issues being Britsh made and comes with a good warranty,I picked one up the other day and had a tour around there factory,at £220 retail very keenly prices,its the only mod design with a built in muzzle brake,they weight 490gr
    like anything form Roedale there Claims are "great"

  3. #3
    Hi, brian

    im using one of the new atec cmm4 mods on my tikka t3lite 25.06, 20" barell, have been very impressed with it. Was out the weekend shooting, the other lad i was with was using a t8 on a 22-250 blaser, the t8 was a bit quiter than mine.

    there is not that much muzzle flip either, shot a couple of rabbits at approx 170 and you could see the strike.
    the reason i went for it was soley weight, most of my stalking is hill, you dont even notice the mod on the end of the rifle, also there is no tingy sound like the t8/t4 mods when you hit a branch.

    If you want you cant buy extra baffles to add on to further reduce the noise.

    Cant recomend the Atec mod enough, you wont be dissapointed.

    Wicklow202

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by wicklow202 View Post
    Hi, brian

    im using one of the new atec cmm4 mods on my tikka t3lite 25.06, 20" barell, have been very impressed with it. Was out the weekend shooting, the other lad i was with was using a t8 on a 22-250 blaser, the t8 was a bit quiter than mine.

    there is not that much muzzle flip either, shot a couple of rabbits at approx 170 and you could see the strike.
    the reason i went for it was soley weight, most of my stalking is hill, you dont even notice the mod on the end of the rifle, also there is no tingy sound like the t8/t4 mods when you hit a branch.

    If you want you cant buy extra baffles to add on to further reduce the noise.

    Cant recomend the Atec mod enough, you wont be dissapointed.

    Wicklow202
    thumb's up and second that My Rifle is a T3 Hunter (wood) .25-06 and my stalking mate use's same mod on a Sauer .30-06 i also use a A-TEC over the barrel (old style) on my .300 Win-Mag cant praise them enough

  5. #5
    I have a steel atec, a steel delta Roedale and an aluminium delta roedale moderator.
    I've also seen many other moderators at the IWA mostly manufacturers who talk light but
    don't seem to own scales.
    I think if one is looking for a lightweight stalking moderator A-tec and Roedale Delta win.
    Roedale might have the edge because one has the option to order the aluminium version with the first two baffles in stainless.
    Modular is the way to go.
    The wow effect is huge if one replaces a 500 gram mod with a 200 gram mod.
    edi

  6. #6
    ejg is the 200g mod safe on the larger calibres as it says on his site the heavy mods are used on the larger calibres and has his customer service improved any. It was not to long ago some will rememeber that he (pete Lincoln )would take 2 years just to put a barrel on and his reasons for being late to every one were his constant deaths and illness in his family.(but he would always take the cash ) It might be worth thinking of an extra gram or two if you need your moderator earlier than 2012. All them best with the fancy mods i sticl with simple wasnt there a thread on getting to technical.

  7. #7
    Hi choc,
    let's get even less technical and go back to a catapult...
    Technology is there to help, use it.
    But there is choice, we once had a mod that weighed 1 kg and wasn't even that effective. was that better? nice and old fashioned??
    As I said earlier there is a huge difference in handling between the 200g and 500g mods.
    Those who chose not to use a mod because of handling can look again.
    At least these mods are now made by Roedale and there is less wait, no importing.

    With the larger calibers; as far as I know at Roedale they were scared that someone would
    stick the larger (by bore diameter) mod on a 338 lap mag instead of a say a 338 federal.
    Best is to check with the manufacturer if the mod is ok for a particular cartridge, with any mod manufacturer.

    As far as I know the Roedale mods will be sold from a larger shop in the UK if all goes well.
    That should avoid longer and dearer postages.
    edi

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by ejg View Post
    Hi choc,
    let's get even less technical and go back to a catapult...
    Technology is there to help, use it.
    But there is choice, we once had a mod that weighed 1 kg and wasn't even that effective. was that better? nice and old fashioned??
    As I said earlier there is a huge difference in handling between the 200g and 500g mods.
    Those who chose not to use a mod because of handling can look again.
    At least these mods are now made by Roedale and there is less wait, no importing.

    With the larger calibers; as far as I know at Roedale they were scared that someone would
    stick the larger (by bore diameter) mod on a 338 lap mag instead of a say a 338 federal.
    Best is to check with the manufacturer if the mod is ok for a particular cartridge, with any mod manufacturer.

    As far as I know the Roedale mods will be sold from a larger shop in the UK if all goes well.
    That should avoid longer and dearer postages.
    edi
    wow a UK gun shop is actually going to sell Roedale items,i think this was tried before and didnt work.I suspose the only way to get them in this country is to have a Uk supplier as you cant have one sent direct
    only time will tell

  9. #9
    I wish some people could simply accept that in every human lifetime some difficult or hard times may be encountered and that this is likely to affect work related issues. If it takes a barrel manufacturer a year to produce a barrel and another six months to obtain an export permit, then its likely to take a gunsmith one hell of a long time to replace a barrel. and that can be said, and time can be added or subtracted for any component part of a rifle that is sourced from further afield.I wasn't the only riflesmith to suffer from problematic supply, and indeed still do suffer. But bieng part time and with some family health issues to boot i sure suffered more than most. Anyhow, the past is the past, despite that some folk seem intent on bringing the past into the present and the future. I would also like to catagoricaly state that never once did i take any money and not deliver, on the contrary, a small few who might even be reading took goods and didn't pay. A lot of rifle builds get delayed due to component supply issues, its a pain in the backside and i'm sick of it. Only way around component supply problems is manufacture in the EU but thats not without its pitfals. It seems to however be the trend and i think the current move away from depandance on US made products we see on the market is a big positive step for all European rifle users and manufacturers alike.

    That issue aside.

    As this thread is about my suppressors, I guess its ok for me to comment without bieng accused of advertising. It makes sence to get the facts from the horses mouth rather than second hand. So i will explain the history, developement and the facts.

    The History:
    The Delta moderator design originated back in the early 1990's when I was tasked by my OC with manufacturing a batch of supperssors for some Kalashnikov type assault rifles ( AK74 of non specific origin) belonging to a certain unit.
    Rather than remove the flashhider and manufacture a model to suit the muzzle thread, which if i remember correctly was left handed,( i may be mistaken, its a while ago) we didn't have the tools in the Machywagon to do it easily.No left handed plug taps, and no left handed threading tools. I came up with the idea of adding a stack of baffles to adapt a Kalashnikov flash hider into a suppressor ( the flashhider in question was the one that the very similar Noveske KX3 is modeled on) any AR15 buffs will know this flashider and know that it has 2 parts, one is mounted onto the barrel via the thread, the 2nd part is funnel shaped and screws into the front of the first part.

    What I did was remove the funnel and add a stack of 5 screw in baffles and an end cap. Over the lot I spot welded an outer shield that was drilled with a load of holes (looked like the heat sheald on a H2MB .50 cal) then dropped the lot into a bath of blueing sollution ( infact I think the first one was painted with suncerite but it let of a stink when the mod was fired, so matt blueing was opted for) and the supperssor was finished and it worked well enough for the boys in green.

    I'd meddled with supperssor manufactur in the past, firstly as a teenager, manufacturing one for my .410. I looked at supperssor manufacture again later whilst working for a gun shop, but little demand for supperssors in Germany meant it wasn't at the time worth the effort. Then when I gained my own Dealers and Manufacturers license I began to recieve requests for mods. Not having the machining capability,( it takes a fair while to complete a supperssor on a traditional manual lathe) time or the money, buy in, import was the way to go and norwegan mods where bought in for a while. That went tits up for a number of reasons, so I stayed away from retailing supperssors / moderators for a while.

    The Developement:
    What I didn't do was stop tinkering. But tinkering is trail and error and the outcome of such is unpredictable. some mods i constructed worked well, others where rubbish, others blew apart on the first shot. Wanting to get my head around the theory, and wanting to jump a step ahead. Finaly getting to s stage where i had the capacity, machinery and funding to go at it the right way, I decided it was time to use my connections to the University of Applied Sciences. The Uni have a gas flow laboratory ( Labor für Ströhmungslehre) and do a lot of R&D testing on gas and fluid flow for the auto and aeronautical industry, stuff like optimising fuel flow through fuel systems, gas flow through cylinder heads and exhausts, and even jet engine fuel flow ( they actualy have a jet engine sat there in the lab that they can test parts on. They have the ability to computer simulate the effectiveness of gas flow or fuel flow in mechanical components from the CAD stage.
    The top and bottom is, the University where commissioned with a year long diploma study, and I had access to a team of boffins to develope supperssors and muzzle brakes. I bought in every single type of moderator available that I could get my hands on, (same goes for brakes) they where tested thoroughly as was my excisting design, we also manufactured several theory test prototypes which where also tested. The best of the supperssors where then stripped apart to gain knowledge from the internals. The data compiled and evaluated. The end results, combined with the results of the simulations where included into the alterations to the Delta design and the current suppressor was finaly ready for testing. Then the variouse variants where tested on calibers from .222, through .338lap up to .458winmag. ( Ive a .50 BMG and a .408 version in progress but they aren't ready yet)

    The final design is basicaly the same type of design that evolved from that which was originaly screwed to the end of the AK almost 20 years ago. With the shape of the baffles, the distances and geometry of the supperssor optimised with regards to the data from the diploma study.

    The facts:

    all the stalking, hunting and general purpose supperssors on the Delta range are of the same design. Only the Delta Xtrem and the QD versions bieng different.
    rear expansion chamber that screws to the barrel, to which a baffle stack is screwed, to which an end cap is screwed.
    by adding 1 baffle to a Delta IV you make a Delta V, +1 and you have a Delta VI.
    Recomendations on the best suited caliber are a result of 2 things:
    1. Case Capacity x Load intensity
    2. Bullet Diameter
    The recomendations do not mean you can't use the mod on a larger of smaller case capacity, but you better not try and use a larger bullet than is recomended.
    The Ultralight versions are recomended for light use only, general stalking and occasional check zero. They are not for use every weekend banging 100rds down range quickly, they will do it, but you will burn the baffles out quick.
    The light versions are recomended for the user who shoots more than the avarage hobby stalker, lets say a deer manager, pest controller or someone who does a fair bit of load developement with a suppressor fitted.
    Neither the Ultralight or the Light are recomended for magnum cartridges. You will be ok with WSM's 30-06, 9.3x62, as they have around the same capacity, the slightly stronger standard cartridges is what i would call them, but one needs to bear in mind that the internal volume capacity needs to be stepped up with the case capacity for best results.
    Its absolutely ok to use a 4 baffle supperssor on cartridges like the .308win, you will however get more sound reduction with more baffles, 4 reduce the peak noise level of lets say a .308win down to below the required level. for a 30-06 best performance is achieved with 5 or 6 baffles.

    The standard versions are recomended for everything else and will stand up to just about any abuse you can throw at them and will cope with semi automatic fire from cartridges like the .223 Rem, 6.5 Grendel etc in a 4 baffle version and .308win in a 5 baffle version. They will also cope with any magnum up to .338 lap and .458 winmag ( the larger bore bieng a special order by the way) but 6 or even 7 baffles are recomended for best results on large magnum cases.
    The cheap and chearfull version of any of the mods is parkerised steel. there are stainless steel versions also, and for ease of cleaning and corrosion resistance, but dark in colour its possible to TiAIN coat the stainless, the things can also be coated with a sutable firearms coating.

    The Delta Xtrem and the Delta Sub are more militarised versions that are beefed up to withstand volumes of semi automatic and automatic fire.
    The Delta Supermag is designed for sniper rifle use with the .338 lapua.

    You may soon see the German Bundeswehr version of the L96A1 ( the G22) wearing one.

    Personaly i'm using an ultralight model with 4 baffles weighing 165g on my .260 rem. it performs with no problems and is hardly noticable until you fire a shot. The difference between the 165g version production models is the wall thickness in the expansion chamber. its thicker. and its thicker because i just know for a fact that when i start sending the mega ultra light versions out I say max cal .308win, some one will put a mod on a 300winmag or 300ultra and wonder why the lifespan isn't what they expected when they split the damn thing, then i'll take the flack again and be public enemy nr 1.
    So the mega light rear ends are mine and for a few select mates, whats 45g anyway.

    I also use a production ultralight on my .260 for demonstration purposes, adding a baffle from 4 to 5 makes no difference what so ever in the impact of the rounds but does achieve more sound supperssion, also swapping the first 2 baffels for TiAIN coated models makes no difference to point of impact. no suppressor fitted to supperssor fitted shift is 4cm up. this is on a one of the alloy sleeved lothar walther barrels. Ive noticed no shift at all when fitting a .308 capable version to a Tikka T3 tactical.

    The info on the website is not up to date as the website is shortly to be updated, the info on the webshop is better. I hope i haven't annoyed anyone by posting this info, its not intended to advertise, just to give the facts in a thread that was started about my supperssors.

    with regard to Longshots comment about delivery to the UK.

    All that is required to get the correct EU transfer paperwork for any moderator-supperssor or any catagory C ( or D for that matter) firearm from an EU country to transfer to the UK directly to the end user is a copy of a UK FAC. Scanned and emailed. That might be use full to any of you guys who shop on the continent. I have a letter from the home office confirming this fact. For RFD the same applies but ist a different department that issue the paperwork. and it takes a little longer for an RFD.

    and Yes i am in talks with a UK retailer about distributorship, but I am sure that they will announce this when the time is right.

    regards. Pete
    Last edited by PeteinDE; 28-07-2010 at 17:39.

  10. #10
    Interesting reply Pete, thanks for taking the time to give us an insight into your work and the R&D involved.

    Don't bother rising to the bait from the usual suspects, its silly season on here today! I'm sure if I said 'my dog is black' we would get five pages of BS along the lines of 'your dogs a cat', 'its not black its white', 'white dogs are better than black cats' etc!!

    JC

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