Clarity of stalking opportunities

MJ75

Well-Known Member
Admin

As you all know the costs for stalking opportunities vary massively. With some outfits charging cull fees for bucks and does. Others, bucks only. Some cull fees include the venison, others do not... We could go on discussing the variants all day long. I think a lot of people who want paid stalking would find it very helpful if suppliers offered completely transparent advertising on this site. I'll pay for anything if it's warranted but I really dislike finding out about hidden costs. And I'm positive I'm not alone here! Therefore, would it be an idea for those offering paid stalking opportunities to use an SD template detailing something similar to below :-

Outing fee and duration
Cull fees
Missed or lost animal fees
Venison fees
Trophy fees
Trophy preparation fees
Other additional charges
Accommodation available etc
Guest requirements DSC level 1, Insurance etc
Calibres permitted

I'm sure this will not appeal to those companies who fees and charges are at the higher end of the scale. However I'm sure that those who want to increase their customer base and who have sensibly priced outing available will benefit greatly. Perhaps a section of the forum could be introduced for anyone willing to offer such an advert. To stop derogatory comments being made, and the discussion going off at a tangent you could either lock the thread, or simply introduce a rule to ensure nothing negative is posted. This can be policed with infractions through the forum software etc.

Maybe special advertising rates for recreational stalkers who are only offering the occasional opportunity could be introduced increasing the forums revenue. If it's used I think it will be of great benefit to the forum community as a whole, giving people more info of whats available and allowing choices to be made. Feedback is an option that could be included allowing those who have stalked with a supplier to write a review etc.

Just an idea....

 
+1 on that. I don't have my own stalking and rely on "bought days" and invitations from friends. I would welcome the sort of transparency described by MJ75.

Andrew
 
Good idea, one further thing useful to know is whether the ground is cleared and if so for which calibres or whether an open ticket is required.
 
It does seem like a lot of detail but I think it is definitely the way to go for clarity.
It would certainly save contacting the advertiser and asking the same questions.
For instance I have seen posts such as, (not exactly as written, but the gist is there):)
'Had an absolutely fantastic four hour stalk, shot the biggest buck of my life, allowed to keep the carcass, excellent guide etc etc'
What is not included is that it cost 5k:D
Or 'Had a fantastic time with so and so, stalking is only £40 an outing, shot a lovely six pointer' but doesn't mention that it cost 1k per point for the buck:D and he couldn't keep the carcass:lol:
 
Hows this for clarity, open to SD members,

£50 a day/part day
Carcase at dealer prices (condemned/spoilt carcases will be paid for)
No trophy fees
B&B available
must have insurance
All deer legal calibres permitted.
own teeth not essential but it is easier on my eye :D

John
 
Hows this for clarity, open to SD members,

£50 a day/part day
Carcase at dealer prices (condemned/spoilt carcases will be paid for)
No trophy fees
B&B available
must have insurance
All deer legal calibres permitted.
own teeth not essential but it is easier on my eye :D

John

Ive ****ed on the chips then as I borrow my ex wifes and she broke them in for a sheiks camel:lol:
 
"Own teeth not essential but it is easier on my eye :) "
As I only have some teeth can you use the other eye John :eek:
 
Surly that age old warning

Caveat emptor ! applies just as much when buy stalking as when buying anything else. If not more so.

Openness in advertising details is always advisable, but not always necessary. A willingness to discuss the arrangemnets and ensuring that the client is fully conversant with what has been agreed is a must. Its call client management.

Those clients that fail to ask the right questions, fail to do their research, fail to make sure they have all of the boxes tick and the signatures in the right places etc,etc. Only have themselves to blame when the day. week, or morning doesn't turn out as they had hoped or the bill is larger than they first thought..
 
Surly that age old warning

Caveat emptor ! applies just as much when buy stalking as when buying anything else. If not more so.

Openness in advertising details is always advisable, but not always necessary. A willingness to discuss the arrangemnets and ensuring that the client is fully conversant with what has been agreed is a must. Its call client management.

Those clients that fail to ask the right questions, fail to do their research, fail to make sure they have all of the boxes tick and the signatures in the right places etc,etc. Only have themselves to blame when the day. week, or morning doesn't turn out as they had hoped or the bill is larger than they first thought..

I disagree to an extent. There are some newbie stalkers who have fallen foul to hidden charges. If they booked stalking in good faith and were unaware I don't think it's there fault. You need to remeber our knowledge and experience has been built up over time. Not everyone understands that some charge per point, others a set cull fee etc. And not every operator is entirely transparent about their offerings!
 
Therefore, would it be an idea for those offering paid stalking opportunities to use an SD template

It's certainly technically possible. I've been experimenting with a template system for creating posts and it can probably be done. The problems come when you start looking at all the different permutations of pricing etc. You could end up with a very complex form, or on the other end of the spectrum we could end up with lots of 'not applicables' because the form doesn't reflect how they price their services.

Your list certainly captures the majority of things people should be asking of advertisers though. I'd also be interested in getting some feedback from some of the advertisers too....


Alex
 
Surly that age old warning

Caveat emptor ! applies just as much when buy stalking as when buying anything else. If not more so.

Openness in advertising details is always advisable, but not always necessary. A willingness to discuss the arrangemnets and ensuring that the client is fully conversant with what has been agreed is a must. Its call client management.

Those clients that fail to ask the right questions, fail to do their research, fail to make sure they have all of the boxes tick and the signatures in the right places etc,etc. Only have themselves to blame when the day. week, or morning doesn't turn out as they had hoped or the bill is larger than they first thought..

Agree to some extent but not entirely. For example, say a cull fee on top of an outing fee. A novice may well assume that by paying a fee to go shooting one would not have to pay more for success.
I dont buy much stalking or sell it. I have in the past been ripped off totally buy someone and also had some great stalking/hospitality for a very reasonable price (and a decent discressionary tip) the only tip I would give to the other guy would be the tip of my boot up his arse.
 
Hi
If you ask the guide before you book and he only tells you that there is just a day price to stalk, Then that is all you pay full stop.
It is the person selling the stalking to make sure you have all the details, Anything omitted from your brief should be at his expense.
Just like if your guide tells you to take out the beast on the right and you shoot the beast on the right and on closer inspection it turns out to be bigger than the guide thought, then that is his fault and you can not be charged for it.
so personally i can not see a need for all this.
if i was not told before i got to the venue then i defiantly would not be paying any extra than what i had agreed to.
simples

ATB
Cam
 
It's certainly technically possible. I've been experimenting with a template system for creating posts and it can probably be done. The problems come when you start looking at all the different permutations of pricing etc. You could end up with a very complex form, or on the other end of the spectrum we could end up with lots of 'not applicables' because the form doesn't reflect how they price their services.

Your list certainly captures the majority of things people should be asking of advertisers though. I'd also be interested in getting some feedback from some of the advertisers too....


Alex

Hi Alex

I've knicked the idea to a degree from an exotic pet forum! Where overall it works very well. The biggest issue is that people may add unwelcome and unfair comments which isn't fair to those advertising. As not everyone is mindful that many stalkers could not enjoy the sport if it was not for paid stalking opportunities. And to be fair, few people understand the costs the people offering stalking have to bear. However there are a few ways of overcoming this. They include :-

Giving advertisers the ability to lock their own threads.

Admin locking the threads.

Use of infractions and bans for people abusing the system.

An additional "classifieds forum chat" sub forum could be added for sensible discussion on the adverts placed. This can work well so long as forum members are mindful of forum rules and show some respect towards the advertisers. On the forum I mention, it has been successfully used to identify a number of scammers. However I don't believe that the stalking industry suffers the organised scams that the exotic pet trade does! I'll PM you links if you like to see how they operate.

I agree the number of variables are huge! Ultimately the large number of variables is responsible for this very thread! However I don't think it's too much to worry about. If the boxes allow free formatted text advertisers will have a degree of freedom to get their message across.

I totally understand that existing advertisers support the board financially and that their input is extremely important. But I can't help thinking that some of them do themselves an injustice by not giving more information in their ads. I believe that in affect forcing them to provide more information will help them promote their own services being offered. I'm sure it would cut down on the number of pointless pm's also. It may (Assuming it's used!!!) inject a little healthy competition amongst suppliers which long term will only benefit the stalking community as a whole.

I also think it would be good if "hobby stalkers" were able to advertise the occasional day as this would offer more opportunities to Joe Public who may be unaware that they could get out stalking locally etc if only they knew an opportunity existed. I'm sure you'll already see the benefits to forum members from doing this. It may be an option to configure the forum so that these hobby stalker opportunities are only available to view if you're an existing member and not a guest. Just a thought. A suitable charge would have to be made for the "advertising" but I'm sure they'll appreciate this anyway.

All the best

MJ
 
Hi
If you ask the guide before you book and he only tells you that there is just a day price to stalk, Then that is all you pay full stop.
It is the person selling the stalking to make sure you have all the details, Anything omitted from your brief should be at his expense.
Just like if your guide tells you to take out the beast on the right and you shoot the beast on the right and on closer inspection it turns out to be bigger than the guide thought, then that is his fault and you can not be charged for it.
so personally i can not see a need for all this.
if i was not told before i got to the venue then i defiantly would not be paying any extra than what i had agreed to.
simples

ATB
Cam

Cam

I understand what you're saying, but look at the bigger picture. Some people reading the adverts won't have ever even held a rifle before let alone stalked a deer with one. We need to remember that not everyone understands what fees can potentially apply. Even the first post will have educated at least one person who was unaware that charges vary so much! The idea is not to disadvantage the suppliers, but to make stalking costs more transparent to all. And to even encourage others (experienced hobby stalkers) to advertise the odd paid day etc which may make more stalking available to others.

Cheers
 
Will this be for the Trade chaps or any one offering stalking cheap to help those through the Lev 2 system
EG I charge 60 per outing for training and for an official AW stalk. No trophy fee,s all i ask is if you are on a AW stalk and waist the beast as happens because i cannot intervene you pay for the deer £1 a pound also if a cull beast is in view we will not wait for something better. ;)
PS ON YOUR OWN GROUND IT IS EXPENSES ONLY.
 
Hi guys, im a newbee and i hope to do some stalking soon. It is confusing to some one like me who is just starting out, all i want to start with is to go on a stalk and hopfully cull a deer. I am ( at the moment ) not to interested in the torphy side of stalking ! but i will be in the future when i have more experience . So i would welcome has much info on prices and fees has possible........................

Steve.................
 
Hi guys, I'm a newbee and i hope to do some stalking soon. It is confusing to some one like me who is just starting out, all i want to start with is to go on a stalk and hopfully cull a deer. I am ( at the moment ) not to interested in the torphy side of stalking ! but i will be in the future when i have more experience . So i would welcome has much info on prices and fees has possible........................

Steve.................

Hi

If you are booking with anyone to go stalking and don't know of them or don't know anyone that has used them before, then best get all chargers put down on paper.
any reputable stalking outfit will be open and upfront with you with there chargers.
And don't worry about getting charged for shooting a big beast as if he tells you to shoot it and you are on a cull package then it is his fault. But make sure you are sure that you are both taking about the same beast. IE don't go and shoot the wrong one.

ATB
Cam
 
Cam

I understand what you're saying, but look at the bigger picture. Some people reading the adverts won't have ever even held a rifle before let alone stalked a deer with one. We need to remember that not everyone understands what fees can potentially apply. Even the first post will have educated at least one person who was unaware that charges vary so much! The idea is not to disadvantage the suppliers, but to make stalking costs more transparent to all. And to even encourage others (experienced hobby stalkers) to advertise the odd paid day etc which may make more stalking available to others.

Cheers


Hi
If you have never been stalking or are very inexperienced at it or very unsure about pricing then ask ask ask.
you would not walk in to a shop and just buy a car, you would ask how much first.
if you are selling the stalking and someone tells you that they are a novice then it is up to you to tell the novice what is involved in your package. But this does not just go for novice stalk;kers you have a duty to tell all customers what is involved in coming out with you.
if you don't tell me or anyone that there is a lost beast charge or a charge for taking a shot whether hit or not. Then don't be surprised when i say sorry you never mentioned this so i will be keeping my cash in my pocket.
it is not that hard. if you are not told then you do not pay. it is souly the person selling the stalking responsibility to inform all clients the pricing structure of his outing. failing to do this is not the fault of the person paying and should not be left for them to ask.

ATB
Cam
 
Cam

Unfortunately you've totally missed my point. I've been stalking a while now. Which is why I'm familiar with a lot of the concerns raised by beginners. Hence the whole point of this thread. Stalking is much, much bigger and more varied than one persons perception of it. I can think of more than one example where people have been caught out financially. There are several more reasons for suggesting this, if you reread the posts you'll pick up on it.

Cheers
 
Surly that age old warning
Caveat emptor ! applies just as much when buy stalking as when buying anything else. If not more so.
Openness in advertising details is always advisable, but not always necessary. A willingness to discuss the arrangemnets and ensuring that the client is fully conversant with what has been agreed is a must. Its call client management.
Those clients that fail to ask the right questions, fail to do their research, fail to make sure they have all of the boxes tick and the signatures in the right places etc,etc. Only have themselves to blame when the day. week, or morning doesn't turn out as they had hoped or the bill is larger than they first thought..

How many times do you see Stalking advertised followed by about a dozen ' PM sent' posts.
Probably all asking the same question with a few holding back because they are new and wary that they might ask, what appears to them, a stupid question.
As already said, there are so many different permutations of pricing systems regarding stalking so a template to cover all situations would be pretty tedious but the most important bits could be covered by the advertiser in the original advert, (as most are) that would help tremendously.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top