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Thread: Fox hunting....assistance/advice required

  1. #1

    Fox hunting....assistance/advice required

    Ok. I was out on one of my permissions last night with a friend, hunting fox. At around 11pm we moved to a different field that had just been cut that day. We set the caller up and set ourselves in a good place to give best safe shots and visibility of the field ahead. At around 11:45pm a car drove onto the field with head lamps on full beam. I took the bolt out of the rifle and left the rifle with my fried (who also has a FAC) and walked over to the car. The chap in the car asked who I was and what I was doing on the land. I flippantly asked Ďwho is askingí? and he said the game keeper. I explained that I had permission from the land owner and showed him the slip and my licence. Explained that I didnít realise that this land was linked to any estate or game keeper. He said that all of the land was Ďestate landí and that we were not allowed to shoot foxes because the estate are big into the hunt!!!. So basically they donít want me to shoot the foxes so that they can still go out (illegally) to hunt the foxes with hounds later in the year (when does hunt start to gather and Ďpretendí to hunt by the way?). He said he had called the police and they were on their way. I told him I was happy to speak to the police but they didnít turn up (full of ****) but decided to leave shortly after because the hunting had been ruined for the night anyway. He said that I would get a call from the estate and he would be calling to see the land owner.
    I have since spoken to the farmer who has confirmed that even though he owns the land it is estate land (donít get that, can anyone explain?) and said that if they ask me again tell them Iím just shooting rabbits!! The chap had not called to see him (at that point) so I said to give them my mobile so that I could speak with them directly.

    Can anyone suggest why 1. The estate can still have some authority over the landowner(if he does actually own the land and isnít renting it), 2. The best way to approach this if they contact me or complain again next time im out. 3. What the rules are now for fox hunting, are they still ok to chase a fox with the hounds but stop them killing the fox? 4. When the hunt starts again and finishes so I can avoid them.

    Thanks Steve

  2. #2
    Stevie,

    All good questions, and without alot of background work the answer to ownership and rights is not one to be answered here.

    But, and especially at this time of year most gamekeepers are run off their feet, poults are very adventurous! Maybe you should try the gentle approach, i know you feel miffed at the Gamekeepers attitiude but at the end of the day its his livelyhood. But try and make peace with him, offer up some advantages of you patrolling the small bit you have on his estate, maybe offer him help with other stuff, if you can get on his good side you may gain far more.

    A diplomatic approach may be the best avenue.
    In regione caecorum rex est luscus

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Hodadr View Post
    Stevie,

    All good questions, and without alot of background work the answer to ownership and rights is not one to be answered here.

    But, and especially at this time of year most gamekeepers are run off their feet, poults are very adventurous! Maybe you should try the gentle approach, i know you feel miffed at the Gamekeepers attitiude but at the end of the day its his livelyhood. But try and make peace with him, offer up some advantages of you patrolling the small bit you have on his estate, maybe offer him help with other stuff, if you can get on his good side you may gain far more.

    A diplomatic approach may be the best avenue.
    All good advice and an approach I always take on the permissions I have. I ahev great relationships with all game keeps that join the land that I shoot on. I guess the issue here was 1. I didnt know that the estate was linked to the land or that a keeper would be concerned about my presence. 2 His attitude to shoting foxes i.e I cant shoot them so he can hunt with hounds!! If they call me Ill try to be diplomatic and find common ground.

    thanks,

    Steve

  4. #4
    Could it be that when the land was purchased by your farmer (perhaps from the estate the keeper works for) the sporting rights were retained by the estate?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by jamross65 View Post
    Could it be that when the land was purchased by your farmer (perhaps from the estate the keeper works for) the sporting rights were retained by the estate?
    Could well be the case. Ill speak F2F with the land owner and see what the score is he didnt seem too bothered I just dont like not getting along with folk especially when Im walking around at night in a field with a powerful rifle in my hand!!!

  6. #6
    Some keepers can take on a little if they don't know about you, as it may look like they "need" helping.
    (The Unspeakable In Pursuit Of The Uneatable.) " If I can help, I will help!." Former S.A.C.S. member!

  7. #7
    The farmer SHOULD of told the Estate and Gamekeeper that you would be about or atleast warned you of the setup and gave you the 'keeper's number.

    I would tread carefully, there could be more to this than meets the eye.
    There is a place on this planet for all of God's creatures, right next to my tatties and gravy!!!

  8. #8
    Strictly speaking foxes rabbits and pigeon by law are not included in sporting rights and the farmer or even tennant farmer can let u shoot them on his land(as long as on a 12month+ lease and not an anual or grass parks lease), it is very possible the land may have been sold and sporting rights retained by the estate, BUT i would be very surprised if that gives them the right to ride horses and hunt over the farmers land if he objects to it.

    In my experience some farmers can be fairly ignorant of game laws/politeness off either informing u or the keeper about the situation. When i was a lad got caught ferreting rabbits on land with permission of the farmer, keeper went nuts, long story short ended up in the rearing field every summer hols and as his underkeeper 3 yrs later when i left school.

    The above doesnt help with the keeper thou, i would go round to his house and introduce urself when its not the middle off the night possibly even offer ur services as a beater for the coming season. I bet he would be over the mooon if u knocked over a few foxes esp this time of year with the poults out. He possibly has to be seen to tow the estate line wotever his true feelings, no keeper likes foxes esp the now with birds in the pen

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by countrryboy View Post
    Strictly speaking foxes rabbits and pigeon by law are not included in sporting rights and the farmer or even tennant farmer can let u shoot them on his land(as long as on a 12month+ lease and not an anual or grass parks lease), it is very possible the land may have been sold and sporting rights retained by the estate, BUT i would be very surprised if that gives them the right to ride horses and hunt over the farmers land if he objects to it.

    In my experience some farmers can be fairly ignorant of game laws/politeness off either informing u or the keeper about the situation. When i was a lad got caught ferreting rabbits on land with permission of the farmer, keeper went nuts, long story short ended up in the rearing field every summer hols and as his underkeeper 3 yrs later when i left school.

    The above doesnt help with the keeper thou, i would go round to his house and introduce urself when its not the middle off the night possibly even offer ur services as a beater for the coming season. I bet he would be over the mooon if u knocked over a few foxes esp this time of year with the poults out. He possibly has to be seen to tow the estate line wotever his true feelings, no keeper likes foxes esp the now with birds in the pen
    Cheers, that rings very true and makes a lot of sense. Just need to find where he livbes now!!! Farmer should have details.

  10. #10
    if it were me i would just steer clear it sounds like as already said before the land has been sold and sporting rights have been kept. its the same situation on a big estate where i shoot a lot of foxes and we do every thing we can to keep the farmers from bringing in there own people to shoot foxes because at the end of the day if joe bloogs comes in knowing nothing about lamping or fox control and missis a fox in the lamp its going to be lamp shy for a long time and could cause big problems for the keeper and this is why i am the only person alowed to shoot foxes on the estate.

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