Fox Hunting Lobby AGAIN slandering night shooting

enfieldspares

Well-Known Member
In the House of Lords question today on hunting the peer Baroness Mallalieu the President of the Countryside Alliance criticises "night shooting which does cause a high degree of wounding". And also snaring.

Really? I have seen enough lamping of foxes in the past to say that I have never seen a shot fox wounded but always killed. Indeed the Government Minister at 5:40 states that "lamping if done correctly is the most satisfactory method".

But yet again the fox hunting lobby are happy to throw mud at any other form of control to try to justify their efforts to repeal the Hunting Act. Are they incapable of defending what they do without these scurrilous attacks on others? These people would sell out anyone in order to justify what they want. It is quite disgraceful. I hope that any Countryside Alliance members will follow this up.

As at some future time if and when the matter of lamping comes up in any discussion, in a anti-shooting political lobby, or in Parliament, or the Scottish Parliament, be assured that someone, somewhere will quote Baroness Mallalieu, the President of the Countryside Alliance, as saying, as above in July 2017 that lamping "does cause a high degree of wounding" then adding that because of this it is cruel and should be banned.

It is at 4:12 in the video in the news item.

Lord Mancroft says only hunting groups care about foxes - BBC News
 
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The sooner they admit that they enjoy fox hunting the sooner they'd have my support (and probably a good portion of the public too). All the while they go on about it being the most humane way (either killed in seconds or escape etc) but almost denying it's jolly good fun and a great day out people don't believe a thing they say and won't take them seriously.


I enjoy shooting/stalking and if anyone asks I'll tell them I enjoy it and it is a huge part of why I do it. All the other reasons for doing it, no natural predators, protecting wildlife/ecosystems etc are all valid but if people didn't enjoy it they wouldn't do it, they'd get someone else to do it.
 
Well I enjoy , really enjoy, following hounds , whether fox hounds, mink hounds or Beagles.

But I recognize for serious fox control in general and for most lamping is the best way to reduce numbers and it is the method I employ on my own game shoot. Although I have seen more than one fox hit and not recovered with centerfires I would say wounding rates are far less than with shotguns or rimfire. (I have never seen a fox wounded by hounds).
 
A hunted fox is either killed or escapes . If you shoot at enough foxes you will eventually wound one .Not all the
People who shoot foxes are expert marksmen .

Chill
 
It's possible to wound any animal be it fox ,deer or rabbit etc with any sort of gun shotgun or firearm every one try's not to but unfortunately it does happen regards Kai
 
I love these threads, what the hunting community seem to have forgot is that it's illegal to hunt foxs with a pack of hounds unless they are flushing to standing guns or a "bird of prey", they also seem to think that it's vermin control and it's not, they also seem to think if you live and work in the countryside that you will support them, all this while themselves and their followers deem any other method of fox control as cruel and inhumane. They really are unbelievable , they do themselves no favours these days.
 
I love these threads, what the hunting community seem to have forgot is that it's illegal to hunt foxs with a pack of hounds unless they are flushing to standing guns or a "bird of prey", they also seem to think that it's vermin control and it's not, they also seem to think if you live and work in the countryside that you will support them, all this while themselves and their followers deem any other method of fox control as cruel and inhumane. They really are unbelievable , they do themselves no favours these days.

Well said.
 
In the country where spotlighting was invented, its ironic we still have fox hunting clubs complete with horses. They get 40-60 foxes per year. We also have plenty of clubs that shoot excess of 400 foxes a year over hounds. There is room for all types of hunting and shooting.
 
I love these threads, what the hunting community seem to have forgot is that it's illegal to hunt foxs with a pack of hounds unless they are flushing to standing guns or a "bird of prey", they also seem to think that it's vermin control and it's not, they also seem to think if you live and work in the countryside that you will support them, all this while themselves and their followers deem any other method of fox control as cruel and inhumane. They really are unbelievable , they do themselves no favours these days.

It is illegal to hunt foxes with a pack of hounds in E&W with the exception of flushing to bird of prey. The use of guns does not make hunting lawful, although more than two hounds can be used to flush foxes to guns in Scotland (for now - the SNP seem to want to bin that too). This was the amendment that David Cameron wanted to introduce, to make gun packs legal below the border, but Sturgeon threatened to vote against it (even though it would just bring Scottish and English law on the matter into line) and therefore the vote was cancelled, asit would not pass with the SNP contingent voting against it (on a purely English and Welsh matter).

Some of us can remember as far back as before the ban and in the meantime have to enjoy watching hounds work within the law, either on artificial trails or on rabbits (beagles).
 
They really are unbelievable , they do themselves no favours these days.
My father grew up following the fell packs, I also followed hounds when I could as I enjoyed the day out but primarily I've always shot foxes, I also attended the marches in London (lots of anti-shooting placards carried by fox hunters then)

My fathers words which I've always found true, "The biggest threat to fox hunting, is fox hunters!"
 
The sooner they admit that they enjoy fox hunting the sooner they'd have my support (and probably a good portion of the public too). All the while they go on about it being the most humane way (either killed in seconds or escape etc) but almost denying it's jolly good fun and a great day out people don't believe a thing they say and won't take them seriously.


I enjoy shooting/stalking and if anyone asks I'll tell them I enjoy it and it is a huge part of why I do it. All the other reasons for doing it, no natural predators, protecting wildlife/ecosystems etc are all valid but if people didn't enjoy it they wouldn't do it, they'd get someone else to do it.

Spot on.

I'm happy to leave the explanation for why deer culling is important to the likes of the BDS.

K
 
In the country where spotlighting was invented, its ironic we still have fox hunting clubs complete with horses. They get 40-60 foxes per year. We also have plenty of clubs that shoot excess of 400 foxes a year over hounds. There is room for all types of hunting and shooting.
exactly true here plenty of Fox's to go round fox hunting with hounds isn't clinical its sport and enjoyed simple the hunting I do here is with thermal and night viz its to stop predation of game birds its clinical and a necessity not sport to ME the hunt know I do it and know why I have to .we there for have our own alliance .
each to there own live and let live bit of a contradiction there but you get me !
 
The Countryside March down to Hyde park from Scotland and Wales was organized by a group of hunters and not the BFSS
Following the publicity of this march the BFSS changed its name to the Countryside alliance ( see what they did there)
Only last week the CA published photos on the net of the Hyde Park march, Cheeky !
The CA now support rural business like the best café or butcher in your area and also internet coverage in the countryside !
We have far far to many organisations covering country sports all feathering there own nests, in fact the number of organisations grows!
The good baroness would be better amalgamating organisations, one voice would be more effective all these organisations waste millions duplicating effort !grrrrrr
 
I think there's probably a happy medium between the current dispersal of membership and campaigning effort among an alphabet soup of fieldsports organisations and a single, all powerful -and therefore most likely complacent- monopoly. I think the CA is currently the most effective campaigner and that it is sensible for it to assume a broad remit. The fact that the BFSS was able to change its identity may be thought of as cheeky, but I think it is to their credit that they realised that a new image and a new approach was needed at a time of crisis and too the initiative to do this.

As for fox-hunters. I would love to see the ban repealed as it looks like heaps of fun and helps support a lot of rural businesses. They should, however, ensure that being on their high horses remains a literal fact rather than an attitude, because, like us, they need all the friends they can get.
 
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I can't see that the "ban" has made much difference around here. The packs I know have just carried on the same as before!
 
The Countryside March down to Hyde park from Scotland and Wales was organized by a group of hunters and not the BFSS
Following the publicity of this march the BFSS changed its name to the Countryside alliance ( see what they did there)
Only last week the CA published photos on the net of the Hyde Park march, Cheeky !
The CA now support rural business like the best café or butcher in your area and also internet coverage in the countryside !
We have far far to many organisations covering country sports all feathering there own nests, in fact the number of organisations grows!
The good baroness would be better amalgamating organisations, one voice would be more effective all these organisations waste millions duplicating effort !grrrrrr

That argument would be well applied to the shooting orgs too!
 
Here's the reply I got from the CA:

Thank you for your email. I appreciate your concern. The Alliance has always robustly defended the proper and humane use of all methods of pest control according to best practice, whether using dogs, firearms or snares. We believe those responsible for managing wildlife should be free to choose the method, or combination of methods, best suited to their circumstances. The Alliance has been at the forefront of seeing off attempts to ban the use of snares in England, Wales and Scotland, working with all other rural organisations. Our position on snares and shooting is well established, public, and understood by the UK Government and devolved administrations. We work very closely with other shooting and rural organisations and our policy positions are agreed on these key issues. All our organisations have recognised that there is evidence of poor practice where snaring is concerned and wounding can occur when firearms are used where practitioners are not sufficiently skilled. Equally, it is perfectly possible for hunting to be conducted badly against best practice. These are all issues which we need to address as and when they arise.
[FONT=&amp]While parliamentary rules require peers to declare membership/involvement in any organisation associated with a given issue being debated, Lady Mallalieu does preface her remarks with “in my view” and not “in the Alliance’s view”. Clearly her view is not the same as the Alliance’s.[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]The case against both snaring and shooting and accusations of cruelty etc. have already been well made, and to date successfully rebutted by the Alliance and others.[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]Yours sincerely,[/FONT]

James Legge

So it's like Chris Packham and the BBC. When what they do or what they say is potentially embarrassing the, at that point it's all "Not one of us on this occasion". And that somehow exonerates their continued association with the organisation. Not good enough. In 1988 I proposed a motion at the BASC AGM, requiring that John Farr MP be expelled from BASC, that forced him to resign from it because of his views on certain firearms as the post-Hungerfod legislation went through Parliament.

Perhaps a CA member needs to propose similar regarding Baroness Mallalieu?
 
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Night shooting which does cause a high degree of wounding

That. It doesn't.

We used to shoot maybe 100 plus foxes a year, two to three plus a week, on the estate where I shot in the late 1980s and early 1990s. Never had a one that wasn't killed dead right there. She is using the classic propaganda technique of using a SMALL truth to justify a BIG lie. By implying that hunting is the only truly humane method of killing foxes and should be made lawful as shooting is cruel.

As per my original post her viewpoint is quite different from that of the CA of which she is President. So, either then she should sing from the same hymn sheet or resign as President. As public perception will be that she as President of the CA speaks with an authority and not is merely expressing an incorrect, not factually sustainable, mere opinion.

If she says that it causes a HIGH DEGREE of wounding then what studies does she base that on? None. It isn't true.
 
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