Beaters paying tax

Puds

Well-Known Member
Hi folks,

The shoot I beat on (medium sized commercial job) has given us all forms to fill out at the end today, asking for name, address, DOB & NI number. Obviously this is going to be used for tax purposes, but where do beaters stand as far as tax goes? Is it a case of just waiting for a bill to come through at some point in the future, or does the taxman expect you to be more proactive with declaring it? I'm not self employed so have no idea how declaring it works, or how to claim expenses for stuff like dog food or clothing (or if I can at all).
Does anyone know how it all works, as it seems a massive pain in the arse!!
 
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We all have to pay tax on any tax income we earn whether it is through formal employment via PAYE, or on a self employed basis. A commercial shoot will have to do its own accounts and one of its costs will be the labour. They will also have to be insured etc and this will include insurance for any beaters, picked ups, keepers etc - any body in their employ.

Most beeters will be employed on a self employed basis. You will need to complete a tax return and you will provide three figures - total earnings thru self employment, total costs involved in this activity and your profit. You will need to keep a record.

In terms of your costs, the phrase is reasonable. So is it reasonable to purchase each year a £1,000 pair a leather trousers to clamber through the brambles - no, but a pair of hunting trousers, chaps and boots every other year would be reasonable.

the other point is to charge a proportion of your costs - so using the above example of trousers, if they are only used for beating then charge the full cost, but if you also use every day for going to the pub and whilst summer stalking - ie for your own recreation, then put down 50% of the cost.

Likewise the dog - if she is just a working dog, and you being employed because you have good dogs, then charge their costs. But if it's also a pet, is a French bull dog etc then don't.
 
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Wonder if the guy on here from basc can jump in o this one to give a proper legal answer to this as I'm sure it affects a lot of people.
I for one stopped beating an estate due to this very situation around 3 yrs ago as I didn't know the legal protocol, loads of folk on the shoot saying 'ah just keep bills for vets fees, dog food, boots an clothing' but didn't like the vagueness of it all and if ya done for tax fiddle then away goes the license.
Cheers
Jimmy
 
I am currently self employed. personally I would use this as an opportunity to get the rest of your tax liability down. If you make a net loss on your beating work it will affect any PAYE tax you pay.
You have every right to claim for everything from vets bills to mobile phone costs to Fuel if you use it in anyway for your beating work claim for it. its down to HMRC to prove its not a reasonable cost not the otherway round!
 
Wonder if the guy on here from basc can jump in o this one to give a proper legal answer to this as I'm sure it affects a lot of people.
I for one stopped beating an estate due to this very situation around 3 yrs ago as I didn't know the legal protocol, loads of folk on the shoot saying 'ah just keep bills for vets fees, dog food, boots an clothing' but didn't like the vagueness of it all and if ya done for tax fiddle then away goes the license.
Cheers
Jimmy

I reckoned you were safe as long as you declared it all. It is only a fiddle if you try and keep any cash income quiet.

I am self-employed and VAT registered which really makes for complications...I would loose 20% of any beating income if I did not charge the VAT on top. The shoots are not VAT registered so bad news. However my accountant took official advice, and it has been classed as hobby income and not included in my VAT figures.

On that hobby basis, I don't claim for the outdoor clothing which is mainly used for beating or for the fuel to get there...I do claim for the dogs' vet and food larger bills, but that is for their everyday to day function as visitor alarm/watchdogs.

I do keep a note and the invoices of all the beating and stalking expenditure though, just in case they ever changed their minds. I can then claim the expenses...which, for like most of us, probably outweigh the income!

Alan
 
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i pay the beaters tax,or the estate take the tax then pay me.i can not claim any thing back from the tax man,not fuel clothing dogs anything and i am told that beating is not classed as employment by the shoot so no insurance is paid on my behalf i do get a letter,p60 from the tax office saying i have paid the tax. any one know the legallities of this? can i claim anything back?
 
Banus, this sounds ...er..."unorthodox". I'm no expert but P60s summarise tax paid through PAYE by employees.
If you receive money for beating, i think the position is that either it is taxable as an employee, in which case you will receive a P60; or you are doing it on a self-employed basis, in which case you would do Self-Assessment and pay tax and NI on your profits after expenses.
So either A) the shoot/estate (i didn't quite understand your arrangement) is employing you. In this case, you may not be able to claim expenses and will receive a P60. The employer may not be paying national insurance for you because the earnings from beating are probably too low to require it.
Or B) the beating you do is not employment and therefore is a business transaction with you as a self-employed business. In this case, you can claim every reasonable expense. You would probably only be able to go back one tax year and recalculate.
Or C) some exemption exists such that you can be paid for doing work without it being taxable.
I think that minimum wage law would be applicable if you are being employed and getting a P60.
It's all a bit of a horrible mess because we'd all like to think that hobbies are none of the taxman's business. After all, nobody really beats for the profit.
 
It's all a bit of a horrible mess because we'd all like to think that hobbies are none of the taxman's business. After all, nobody really beats for the profit.

It's truly moronic that, considering the level of tax evasion that goes on in huge companies daily, HMRC are targeting folks who get £30 for waving a flag at some pheasants on their weekends.

Thanks for all all the advice, I'll knock up a spreadsheet to keep track of it all. Better safe than sorry.
 
I'm less irritated by the inequalities of HMRC targeting than I am by how much of the tax collected is wasted stupidly.
Why are the penalties for wasting tax collected on a massive scale non-existent, yet the penalties for not paying tax correctly so draconian?
Anyway, don't let it spoil your enjoyment of beating.
It may be possible to beat as a volunteer and for the expenses of beating to be borne by the shoot. I.e. instead of receiving £x as payment for beating, you beat for free and the costs of equipment fuel etc. to be part of the shoot's expenses. This might be as much as £x or more, but you'd need to keep a record and justify the expenses anyway.
 
HMRC have really tightened up on the criteria re self-employment. In many cases, regular beaters who only work for one shoot would, in fact, be classed as employees so the shoot would have to do all the relevant tax paperwork etc. If a regular beater works for several different shoots then he is more likely to tick the boxes that make him self-employed.
 
Its actually very hard to get done for tax doging if you declear everything. For everything you claim they can only say no later on and ask you to pay the differance.

Tax avoidance is not a crime
 
Its actually very hard to get done for tax doging if you declear everything. For everything you claim they can only say no later on and ask you to pay the differance.

Tax avoidance is not a crime

Do I need to proactively approach them and ask for a self-assessment form, or wait for them to get in touch and tell me to do one?
 
Your shoot ought to be able to explain on what basis they are engaging you. If they are employing you, you need do nothing.
If you are providing beating services on a self-employed basis, then you will have to be proactive and register.
However, as others have indicated, HMRC may not necessarily view it as genuine self-employment, but as employment ....and the employer seeking to dodge some of his responsibilities.
Best thing to do is:
1. Ask the shoot.
2. Read up on self-assessment and self-employment on the gov.uk website.
3. Seek further advice if necessary.
 
Go on to the self assment page on the HMRC website it is pretty easy to follow the will send you one by post.
 
I came across this when I was beating on a local estate.
I was only able to attend a couple of times before the end of the season.
I filled in the form and received my £35 for the day.
some time later I received a letter from HMRC wanting to deduct tax for the following year from my tax code of my full time employment. This tax was estimated to what they thought I would be earning !!
I told them that I would not be doing it again.
the next time I went to the shoot beating and we are in the beaters hut at lunchtime when the boss's wife came round to give us our £35 . She came to me and handed me the cash and I said no thanks it's not worth the hassal.
its a shame as some people will rely on this money as part of an income.
 
I suppose the one positive about all the tax and rate implications on shooting is that many of the semi commercial shoots will stop and go back to more informal bunch of friends having a good day out, with any beaters being rewarded with a few good days shooting in return. I used to beat on a shoot like that. Two farmers provided the land, about five of the guns put in cash - they were working away / london, a couple did the keepering and the beaters were those like myself who had a bit of time but not the cash. It all worked well until The shoot captain misbehaved with one of the keepers wife and then it all fell apart.
 
The other shoot I beat on is like that. You get a pub breakfast, lunch & a hot dinner, a couple of brace at the end of the shoot day and a day or two's shooting near the end of the season. No payment, but its bloody good fun.

Just out of interest, does dog insurance count as an expense? It's working dog insurance via BASC, but didn't know if it'd count or not?
 
Any cost associated should be included the worst they can do is argue, if you have a dog for beating the food bills and vet checks for the year will add up, it wont take long for your tax return to be a loss making exercise
 
As I understand it beaters are employed by the shoot as they are under instructions from the shoot/ keeper and therefore cannot claim any expenses , ie travel ,clothing , dogs etc, pickers up are not under instructions of the shoot/ keeper and do their own thing, so are classed as self employed and can claim expenses,I know its nuts , as a picker up the shoot notifies HMRC, I have to fill out a self assessment tax form every year, PITA, even with dog food , dog meds; vet bills etc I still end up paying tax,there Is a guy on pigeon watch Davyo I think, he works for HMRC and did explain it all, the thread was in the gamekeeping section , I think last year, its worth a look, John
 
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There is a problem if you put anything on the self-employment page of the self-assessment return, even if it's a zero.
You may not get NI contributions paid when you are not working, and this will affect your OAP.
 
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