Reloading query. What to do with FAC

Rasputin

Well-Known Member
A buddy of mine just bought the reloading kit and we sjoot the same cal so I planned to use it and reload my own. When they are complete do I just write it on my fac?
 
No. I keep the receipts for powder and bullets as proof if needed, but no-one has ever asked for them.
 
Rounds you might have loaded from componant parts would if you sold/gave or otherwise transfered to someone else have to be entered on their ticket by you i believe ?
 
I’ve just been told by FEO to write home loads onto my FAC so they can see how many I’m using (to be fair, they also said I could keep records of numbers made - which I don’t currently, as I’m not a target shooter and don’t care how many I shoot zeroing).
 
When my F.E.O.'s come round they have to wade through spent primer stores / brass piles, die stacks etc, it's pretty obvious what's going on.
 
I’ve just been told by FEO to write home loads onto my FAC so they can see how many I’m using (to be fair, they also said I could keep records of numbers made - which I don’t currently, as I’m not a target shooter and don’t care how many I shoot zeroing).

The amount of ammunition fired is not an indication of the amount of use, one shooter may go to the range once a year and shoot 200rnds another may go out every week and only fire four shots.

Ian.
 
1) The only time YOU write on your FAC or SGC is when you sign it
(Caveat: Outside of extreme circumstances that do not apply to 99.99% of firearms transactions..... :doh:)

Any FEO advising otherwise should be educated
DO NOT write your own ammunition on it

2) Do NOT keep receipts to demonstrate usage. It is the slippery slope of control and NOT required under ANY circumstances.
There are guidelines on how many times MAY be appropriate for a target shooter to attend a range in order to maintain an authority where that range membership is the ONLY good reason.
There are not for sporting shooters
Think Africa DG rifle, used 5 times in a lifetime, good reason? Because I may go back next year!

3) The only thing you need an FAC for is to buy primers and even then they are not entered onto the certificate

4) DO NOT sell ammunition you made to others or buy other peoples home loads. Other than being a terrible stupid idea to use untested ammo you are testing the boundaries of firearms law.
 
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I'm late to the thread but just a few tips. Ammunition is, except one important exception, not like making a gun or a component part of a gun. So when ever I have had a rifled barrel blank and chambered it I have, at that moment, had to enter in on my Dealer's Register as "made" and the date that I have made it by cutting a chamber in a barrel blank.

And as an RFD if I have made up bespoke ammunition for a customer I have always had to enter it on my Dealer's Register as "manufactured" and then on to the customer's FAC. I used to do a lot of .455 Webley ammunition and some .38-44.

But you are an FAC holder so I think the below is what might be relevant. The exception is the first paragraph:

The exception with ammunition is if you were using somebody else's reloading equipment, on somebody's else's place of business premises and you were buying the primers, powder and cases from them to assemble under their supervision into ammunition. The law might hold that you had in fact acquired the ammunition as prior to that there is noting of it that you don't own. Typically a "School of Reloading" or where you are reloading your cases but with bullets, powder and primers PURCHASED on the day from the "school".

Sharing equipment at a mate's...who isn't an RFD...where he has a spare space and you buy a few canisters of powder and carton of primers together (or one buys the powder at one place and and you the primers elsewhere) and you each than split the cost and the reloading equipment is bought 50/50 sharing the cost I'd say isn't "acquiring" as there is no selling of the components TO YOU. But just mates sharing costs. The more so if you have a .30-06 and he has a .270 WCF but, of course, both use Large Rifle Primers and Viht 160 that you've split the cost of.

But if he loads it and he hasn't authority for .30-06 ammunition on his own FAC the law, although it isn't usually concerned with inconsequential petty matters, will hold that he has both made it and until you take possession of it is in illegal possession of it. So never tell him that you'll be "Round at 8.00pm...but as it's now 6.00pm he can 'crack on' and load some .30-06 to be waiting for you when you get there"...that's an offence of manufacturing and possessing ih he has no .30-06 authority or (if he has) it is beyond his authorised holding limit.

But i am hoping that you knew that already.
 
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1) The only time YOU write on your FAC or SGC is when you sign it

No that's incorrect. I have written on my FAC and SGC many times. Else how else would I have transfered a weapon to myself from my Dealer's Register?

It is also possible in other limited but not infrequent circumstances for either an FAC holder or SGC holder who is not an RFD to write on their own certificate.
 
I'm late to the thread but just a few tips. Ammunition is, except one important exception, not like making a gun or a component part of a gun. So when ever I have had a rifled barrel blank and chambered it I have, at that moment, had to enter in on my Dealer's Register as "made" and the date that I have made it by cutting a chamber in a barrel blank.

And as an RFD if I have made up bespoke ammunition for a customer I have always had to enter it on my Dealer's Register as "manufactured" and then on to the customer's FAC. I used to do a lot of .455 Webley ammunition and some .38-44.

But you are an FAC holder so I think the below is what might be relevant. The exception is the first paragraph:

The exception with ammunition is if you were using somebody else's reloading equipment, on somebody's else's place of business premises and you were buying the primers, powder and cases from them to assemble under their supervision into ammunition. The law might hold that you had in fact acquired the ammunition as prior to that there is noting of it that you don't own. Typically a "School of Reloading" or where you are reloading your cases but with bullets, powder and primers PURCHASED on the day from the "school".

Sharing equipment at a mate's...who isn't an RFD...where he has a spare space and you buy a few canisters of powder and carton of primers together (or one buys the powder at one place and and you the primers elsewhere) and you each than split the cost and the reloading equipment is bought 50/50 sharing the cost I'd say isn't "acquiring" as there is no selling of the components TO YOU. But just mates sharing costs. The more so if you have a .30-06 and he has a .270 WCF but, of course, both use Large Rifle Primers and Viht 160 that you've split the cost of.

But if he loads it and he hasn't authority for .30-06 ammunition on his own FAC the law, although it isn't usually concerned with inconsequential petty matters, will hold that he has both made it and until you take possession of it is in illegal possession of it. So never tell him that you'll be "Round at 8.00pm...but as it's now 6.00pm he can 'crack on' and load some .30-06 to be waiting for you when you get there"...that's an offence of manufacturing and possessing ih he has no .30-06 authority or (if he has) it is beyond his authorised holding limit.

But i am hoping that you knew that already.

Good intel. We both shoot .270 so will be loading them up, we even have the same gun. Will see how it goes I don't really shoot enough to say it will be cost effective it would just be nice to knock up 100 and know they were all the same vs buying 4 or five boxes.
 
No that's incorrect. I have written on my FAC and SGC many times. Else how else would I have transfered a weapon to myself from my Dealer's Register?

It is also possible in other limited but not infrequent circumstances for either an FAC holder or SGC holder who is not an RFD to write on their own certificate.


Ha!
OK clever dick.
For the 1/4-1/2 million people who hold certificates who AREN'T RFDs.......

there is no reason for them to enter firearms or ammunition on their own certificate
 
ER....not to be rude but you have overlooked the below. The "the only time you write is when you sign it" is no matter how often repeated it may be it is not actually correct. If you said "usually the only time..." then you would be.

It is also possible in other limited but not infrequent circumstances for either an FAC holder or SGC holder who is not an RFD to write on their own certificate.

Deceased estate. If your elderly Dad, or best mate, who lives on their own, or you live with them, or Etc., Etc., and has said that they are yours when he dies, drops dead who then enters his shot guns on your SGC when you collect them from his house after searching and finding their gun safe keys?

My brother and I, although I still lived with my Father and Mother at the time and my brother didn't, did that with his shot guns when he died in 1987 when I was just twenty-nine years old. Although then, from memory it was still, just, the old white paper SGCs and you just notified transfer with him, the transferor, noted as "deceased".

Ditto with any of his ammunition if you have a rifle of similar calibre. You apply for a s7 to possess his rifles, get a variation on your FAC, but enter his ammunition directly on your FAC.

If they are shot guns you don't need to do that....just write them straight on at "D" of Table 2 as "Dad Smith, xxx Gunn Road, Gunntown, Gunnshire....DECEASED" and details of his SGC. And at "F" you sign YOUR name then below "See D - PERSON IS DECEASED".
 
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It is also possible in other limited but not infrequent circumstances for either an FAC holder or SGC holder who is not an RFD to write on their own certificate.
I bet that your FLD loved having you on their books when you were an RFD.;)

The whole idea of making entries on your own FAC is against the spirit of Section 32 of the FAA Act 1997. It is also open to fraud, whereby an FAC holder who hasn’t used any ammunition can add fake transactions to his own ‘Table 2 Ammunition’ section (as reloads) to make it appear that he has a justified use. Just make it up as you go along.

Note D on the back of every FAC reads “The entries for boxes A – E in Tables 1 and 2 relates to transactions with the holder of this certificate.” It’s clear to me at least that all entries have to be done independently by a 3rd party, i.e. someone other than the person who holds the FAC.
 
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Ammunition reloaded in a private capacity, for yourself only, I agree is different. You are correct. I never entered ammunition I had reloaded as a FAC holder, for myself in that capacity, on my FAC but if I had purchased 1,000 rounds of, say, .303 on my RFD and then wanted 200 of it for myself then, yes, I'd legally have to enter them on my FAC as sold from me as an RFD to me as an FAC holder.

Although you are the same person in law as an FAC and RFD you have to act as if you are two people. Just as if you, as an executor, dispose of your Dad's shotguns to yourself as a beneficiary that's been left the shot guns either formally or informally on his death. Yes, you are the obviously physically the same person but, for the law, you are two people. So the limited "deceased estate" being one exception.

Also there are/were some things that you can do with a rifle that is in possession of an RFD and temporarily on his/her "books" as an RFD that you cannot do with a rifle held on an FAC. Especially one that was held on the old "target shooting on approved ranges" condition in relation to where you shoot it to test fire it.

There are other oddities in the law. The Firearms Act specifically says that nothing in the Act will apply to the Proof Houses. Thus I have never been asked to show either an RFD, nor FAC nor SGC, when taking a weapon to proof nor any authority to possess or acquire such weapon on collection of it.

Also outworkers in the gun trade can possess without RFD or SGC component parts of a shot gun without any need for a SGC or RFD if a complete shot gun cannot be made from those component parts. Who is this drafted to benefit? Engravers, who usually, work an an action, or a set of barrels as the only bit they take possession of to work on. Or someone who also never has the whole gun as all they do is re-blacks barrels and the small parts, top lever, guard, fore-end iron and finial etc.
 
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ER....not to be rude but you have overlooked the below. The "the only time you write is when you sign it" is no matter how often repeated it may be it is not actually correct. If you said "usually the only time..." then you would be.



Deceased estate. If your elderly Dad, or best mate, who lives on their own, or you live with them, or Etc., Etc., and has said that they are yours when he dies, drops dead who then enters his shot guns on your SGC when you collect them from his house after searching and finding their gun safe keys?

My brother and I, although I still lived with my Father and Mother at the time and my brother didn't, did that with his shot guns when he died in 1987 when I was just twenty-nine years old. Although then, from memory it was still, just, the old white paper SGCs and you just notified transfer with him, the transferor, noted as "deceased".

Ditto with any of his ammunition if you have a rifle of similar calibre. You apply for a s7 to possess his rifles, get a variation on your FAC, but enter his ammunition directly on your FAC.

If they are shot guns you don't need to do that....just write them straight on at "D" of Table 2 as "Dad Smith, xxx Gunn Road, Gunntown, Gunnshire....DECEASED" and details of his SGC. And at "F" you sign YOUR name then below "See D - PERSON IS DECEASED".

There's also the instance when you buy a firearm abroad such as I've done on two separate occasions in the past. On informing my firearms department of my new acquisitions for which I already had appropriate spaces on my certificate I was told to write the entries on myself and that they would amend my certificate when it next went back for renewal or variation.
 
I’ve just been told by FEO to write home loads onto my FAC so they can see how many I’m using (to be fair, they also said I could keep records of numbers made - which I don’t currently, as I’m not a target shooter and don’t care how many I shoot zeroing).

DO NOT WRITE on your own ticket. I’ve reloaded for all mine. Your word should be enough. Don’t ask your mate to put completed ammo on as unless he’s cip approved he can’t sell or give away ammo.
 
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