A Pair of BSA .308 Viscounts

Hi all, I am new here, and as per my intro I have an interest in the BSA centrefires from the mid to late '50s usually known as the Royal series. Below (hopefully) is a photo of a bachelor mob of billy goats my brother and I cleaned up on a private property on the Great Dividing Range. We were both using our Viscounts in .308. The top one should be familiar to any BSA fans out there - a "standardweight" Viscount with a walnut stock, schnabel fore-end and a 24" barrel. These are relatively rare here in Australia - this is the only one we have seen out here.

The bottom one may be of more interest. It is a Featherweight complete with the Besa muzzle brake and a 20" barrel (or 19 3/4" to be exact. The interesting thing though is that this one (and many others here in Aus) was stocked locally by Slazenger using locally sourced Coachwood (as was used on the locally produced Lee-Enfields). From what we can make out the stock shape is the same as the BSA factory walnut featherweight shape. This particular rifle weighs in at just over 3kg with it's 2-7x33 scope and mounts.

It appears BSA sold barrelled actions into Aus (presumably to Slazenger) who made the stocks and sold them through their network to complement their locally manufactured line of .22RF rifles. So my question, to Uncle Norm and others, is this. Does John Knibbs mention anywhere in his book these barrelled actions being sold to Aus or anywhere else? I know the Monarchs were sold into the US later on under the Herters name, but have not come across any other mention of this.

Regards, Blue Flyer
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First off , welcome to SD . I'm a bit of a BSA freak myself . I just picked one up that's almost identical to your standard weight in 30/06 . They really are great old rifles .
I don't know about Aus , but the barreled actions were sold in Canada years back , along with the Monarchs and U9 actions ( Savage also used to sell 110 actions here at one time , the left hand models were really popular as they were the ONLY left hand action available at the time )
How does the Coachwood stand up ? I've got a Lithgow No1 stocked in coachwood with the brass reinforcements in the trigger bents , are there similar inserts on the recoil lug bearing part of the stock on the BSA's ? Interesting post .

AB
 
AB, the coachwood stock doesn't have any extra inserts; the action is bedded straight onto the timber. Coachwood is quite soft but has proven to be durable enough - all of these rifles are now around 60 years old and the stocks are still usable. It is also rather bland. It will indent if abused, but we tend to look after our rifles (I want to keep them for a looong time). As mentioned, this timber was used on the Lithgow manufactured MkIII. The main factor in this decision, I suspect, was that the coachwood was logged and milled only 50km from the factory. It is a bugger to refinish; every curve on the stock has end grain, and the endgrain absorbs and retains more of any old finish. This makes it near impossible to get the whole stock back to the original colour. We have found some rough bedding attempts - the coachwood tends to splinter. We have started using a thin layer of bedding compound to provide a bit more strength in this area. Walnut is obviously a better choice, but Slazenger used coachwood for a lot of their timber products (they also made furniture, tennis rackets, cricket and baseball bats etc). I'd also add that the coachwood stock is much lighter than its walnut equivalent. The featherweight 308 is a delight to carry all day, but it is rather unpleasant to use off the bench. The muzzle brake doesn't do much except create more noise.

Do you know which barrelled actions were sold into Canada - these early ones or the later Majestic, Monarch etc??
 
So my question, to Uncle Norm and others, is this. Does John Knibbs mention anywhere in his book these barrelled actions being sold to Aus or anywhere else? I know the Monarchs were sold into the US later on under the Herters name, but have not come across any other mention of this.
Mr Knibbs tells us that the Viscount in .308 was produced 1956-58 and 874 were made. The serial number prefix of 3B was used.
The Featherweight Majestic in .308 was produced 1957-63 and 443 were made. The serial number prefix was 3D.

He mentions lots of exports of complete rifles to Canada, USA, Australia and New Zealand. However the only mention of exporting actions is to Herter's in USA. He states that actions were supplied but barrels and stocks made in USA. They were not stamped 'BSA' but only 'Made In England'.

I have not been able to find any other reference to the supply of actions nor barrelled actions to Australia, in his book.
 
This is was I like about researching history. Sometimes the written record does not match what you have in your hand. My 308 Featherweight, pictured above, is without a doubt a Viscount. It's serial number prefix though is 3D. I have always suspected that there may be some errors in John Knibbs' list of prefixes. I did not know that only 443 of prefix 3D were made. Another anomaly is my 222 Hunter. It's prefix is C2B; this does not appear on John's list.

Alberta Boy above mentions that barrelled actions may have been sold into Canada as well. This would not surprise me either. I suspect BSA was desperate enough in the post-WW2 era to sell anything they could to anyone who would buy it. I suspect the main target market, however, was the US.
 
I think the 1970 might be incorrect. The Majestic would have commenced production around '59 or '60; I doubt production of the Viscount would continue past this. One possibility may be selling off surplus Viscount stock in through the sixties??

Any photos of the fibreglass stocks? I haven't heard of those before.
 
I think the 1970 may be incorrect. Production of the Majestic (push feed) would have started around '59 or '60; I doubt production of the Viscount would have continued past this. Maybe they were still selling Viscount (or the whole Royal line) through the sixties to use up old stock. I have seen US magazine adds from 1959 advertising both.

Any photos of the fibreglass stocks. I haven't heard of those before.
 
I was 15 years old and apprenticed in the BSA factory and was behind the stockmaking building from aug 65 till july 66. Many happy memories of walking through the stock shop and slathering over all the 30-06 actions lying around sorry no photos though, some action were filched I heard when I was there. The milling instructer in the training centre made up a colt 1911 from the works drawings that were still in the BSA archives from the WWII era, he will be long passed on now so it is very old news and I cannot even remember his name.
 
I think the 1970 may be incorrect. Production of the Majestic (push feed) would have started around '59 or '60; I doubt production of the Viscount would have continued past this. Maybe they were still selling Viscount (or the whole Royal line) through the sixties to use up old stock. I have seen US magazine adds from 1959 advertising both.

Any photos of the fibreglass stocks. I haven't heard of those before.

Sorry but I am no BSA expert. The best I can do to help is quote the information in Mr Knibbs' book for you. I think you will find all sorts of anomalies though. For example, my .22Hornet proof mark date is 1954 but it doesn't have HUNTER stamped on it, despite the fact that the barrel and action is exactly the same as the Hunter model.
 
I think you will find all sorts of anomalies though. For example, my .22Hornet proof mark date is 1954 but it doesn't have HUNTER stamped on it, despite the fact that the barrel and action is exactly the same as the Hunter model.

I suspect that BSA changed names to suit different markets, but as sure as eggs are eggs there is complete confusion on names at this remove from the period, and IMO Knibbs' book only partially helps.

Like you I have an early 'Hunter', a 7X57 from the first batch built on the medium length action, so maybe a year or two behind yours without checking with Knibbs' serial number v year lists. Like yours not only is there no 'Hunter' marked on it, but there is no model name anywhere to be seen. (I have been told that many of these 7X57s were intended for export to Australia / New Zealand, and have wondered if they were marketed locally under yet another name which was marked on the barreled action at a late stage in the manufacturing process.

(In any event, it is an interesting question as to why the first batch of medium length actions were completed as 7X57s when 308 Win had been around for three years then. It suggests - as I've often read - that the take-up of 308 Win was initially very slow even in the USA and many sporting users saw it as inferior to the .30-06 for some years. The other interesting 'issue' is 7X57mm in a 'medium' action as we've all become used to it being a 'long action cartridge', but that is of course a result of American manufacturers only making two action lengths, 'short' for 2.8-2.9" COAL cartridges and 'long' for .30-06/270 and their 3.34" COALs. My Beezer will accept and feed cartridges up to 3.160" COAL.)
 
I suspect that BSA changed names to suit different markets, but as sure as eggs are eggs there is complete confusion on names at this remove from the period, and IMO Knibbs' book only partially helps.

Like you I have an early 'Hunter', a 7X57 from the first batch built on the medium length action, so maybe a year or two behind yours without checking with Knibbs' serial number v year lists. Like yours not only is there no 'Hunter' marked on it, but there is no model name anywhere to be seen. (I have been told that many of these 7X57s were intended for export to Australia / New Zealand, and have wondered if they were marketed locally under yet another name which was marked on the barreled action at a late stage in the manufacturing process.

(In any event, it is an interesting question as to why the first batch of medium length actions were completed as 7X57s when 308 Win had been around for three years then. It suggests - as I've often read - that the take-up of 308 Win was initially very slow even in the USA and many sporting users saw it as inferior to the .30-06 for some years. The other interesting 'issue' is 7X57mm in a 'medium' action as we've all become used to it being a 'long action cartridge', but that is of course a result of American manufacturers only making two action lengths, 'short' for 2.8-2.9" COAL cartridges and 'long' for .30-06/270 and their 3.34" COALs. My Beezer will accept and feed cartridges up to 3.160" COAL.)

I've seen one here exactly as you describe . There was no name or model number anywhere . A friend of mine picked it up at an estate sale not that long ago and brought it to my place to taunt me with it . It had honest wear on it , but wasn't abused and had a great bore . It was probably carried a lot more than it was shot . Apparently it shoots really well .......... smug b@stard lol .
I also remember a 22 Hornet like Uncle Norms when I was in the Arctic . A local Inuit guy used it for shooting seals ......... lots of them . Those old rifles get around .

AB
 
I'm going to go out on a limb here, and I'm more than happy to be told I'm wrong. I think the transition from Hunter to the Royal series was gradual. They are essentially the same action/rifle with only minor changes - eg the small hole on the rear receiver bridge for the scope ring recoil lug, the swept back bolt handle, the guide rib on the bolt. My 222 Hunter is virtually identical to my 222 Regent - only the bolt handles are different. I would say then, that if your 22 Hornet or 7x57 does not have "HUNTER" on the receiver then they are an early Regent or Viscount. To add confusion I would also posit that these actions were made in batches, perhaps stored,proofed and sold as demand required. So it may have been possible Hunters were still being sold long after the change to the name Royal. I think John Knibbs' dates are based on when the rifles left the factory, as opposed to when they were actually made.

Laurie, to my knowledge none of the Australian ones used a different name. The Hunters were marked HUNTER, and the later Regent, Viscount, Imperial etc had no markings at all other than calibre. This applies to the Majestic, Monarch and CF2 as well. I can only identify what is what by using Knibbs' information and going off the differences from one model to another.
 
The only BSA rifles that had "Hunter" marked on them were the original small action, mostly chambered in .222
After that they started making longer actions on their variation of the Mauser claw action , and at that time they changed the .222 action name and marketed them as "Regent', called the short action "Viscount" and the long action "Imperial". (In the USA these rifles were collectively marketed as "Royal") Although these names were not marked on the rifles.
After that they went the Majestic push feed action around 1960. Which had "Majestic" scrolled on the bolt.
Thereafter the Monarch etc.
 
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