Firearms Siezure

simon1067

Well-Known Member
I am a law abiding, taxpaying citizen that has never been in any trouble with the Police. However treatment I have had at the hands of Northumbrian Police in the last few days I can only describe as shocking.
A year ago when I lived in North Yorkshire my Wife suffered a mental break, attempented suicide. She was sectioned under the mental health act. Whilst she was in hospital I moved to Northumberland to make a new start. I transferred my FOC to my new address and during my security inspection explain to the Officer my Wife’s situation and that she would be coming home at some stage. I reassured her on the security of the security of my gun cabinet and that was fine. That was in Jan of this year.
In May my Wife returned home and was fine for a few months until she was readmitted hospital. She was released again last week and that is when the trouble started. On Friday two armed Police officers accompanied by two CID officers at no warning conducted what I can only describe as a ‘raid’ on my home. They seized all my guns but left my bolts, ammunition and FOC with me.
To be fair the armed officers were polite and most importantly treated my expensive guns with great care and respect. But the male CID officer was rude and aggressive. When I finally got rid of them my children were in tears, my wife inconsolable and the neighbors all out on the street watching what was going on.
As they left they gave me a letter. This stated that my FOC had been revoked and I had to surrender it, all my guns, moderates and ammunition. So I am now in procession of a quality of ammunition illegally!!
I rang both the BDS and BASC for advice. Faxing them the letter and they gave me some initial advice but wanting to take time to consider matters.
I then rang Tina Watson Head of Firearms Licensing. The only options she gave me was to have the guns stored at a fellow FOC holder address or appeal to the court. As I explained to her I have just moved to the area and have no friends or family within 100mile. She refused to listen and kept saying she had no interest in what the BASC had to say the Chief of Police was always right. She was not interested in the distress she had caused my family and to be honest spoke to me like I was a criminal and was rude. She also refused to give me any details about what information she had on my wife’s condition or how she got it. So I could nt argue that my wife is now completely stable.
My next step was to complain to Northumbrian Police not only about their heavy handed attitude and unprofessional attitude of their Officers. I did this by e mail and to be fair within a few hours I was contacted by an Insp Neil Frazer from Bellington. He explained that he was a shooter himself. But there was nothing he was able/willing to do about what had happened. Unofficially he told me the only hope I had of getting my guns back at home was to get rid of my Wife. He also was unwilling to discuss the behavior of the two Officers I was complaining about.
My next step tomorrow is to try and contact The Chief Constable, I know Nothumbrian Police have just had this Roel Moat issue to deal with. But I have been treated like a Criminal. I am worried about speaking to the Licenecing Office further in case they use that against me. I am also using the Freedom of information act to get hold for the information on file. And trying to get a letter off my Wife’s Doctor saying she is now safe. However I think it is him that as written to the FAO telling them of my Wife’s release.
I understand the Police have a job to do but it is their heavy handed, rude and unprofessional attitude I am more upset about. If they would have phoned me giving 48 hours notice to remove the guns from my house. I would unhappy but understanding. I now feel like a no better than a criminal.
 
If God forbid I was in your shoes, My first action would be to contact my MP for a personal meeting, along with a meeting with my solicitor with a view to engaging a Barrister.
 
you need legal aid and quickly. i dont think BASC can help with this situation. i am sure there was a specialist solictor advertising Firearms related services in the back of the shooting comics.

I have had more than my fair share of dealings with the police / cid etc and i know exactly what you are going through in regards to thier attitude / mannors and treatment of the innocent, i found complaining to be of know use at all.

good luck with this issue. i hope things work out for you.

Skipp.
 
From further reading your post, If all is as you state, 1. you were left in possession of ammunition, 2. firearms parts, (bolts), & 3. moderators, (classed as firearms themselves)..........., your F.A.C. should have been surrendered on site to the senior officer, & the most glaring item in the post is the lack of help from shooting orgs, then you have a civilian police authority employee giving you the option to "store your arms with another F.A.C. holder", this was a non starter as the arms would not appear on their F.A.C.!.... You should keep all hard copies of any contact you have with them, try to make a genuine record of any verbal exchanges you have, & I would certainly make enquiries as to how any medical info migrated from the doctor's surgery, if that was the case.
 
Holy crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek::eek::eek:

My immediate thought is that you need to engage the services of a good solicitor specialising in firearms matters. Secondly keep every communication with the police on a strictly formal written basis - don't accept any 'off the record' advice from them. Did they have a warrant to enter your house and seize your firearms? Follow up on your official complaint to the police and start demanding some action from them. Get your MP involved. Best of luck.
 
Horrendously upsetting, heavyhanded, intrusion for honest folk to endure. You have my deepest sympathies. I don't know you or your circumstances, but I take it as a very healthy sign that you came on here for support. And, I'm pleased you are getting it and sound advice too. I have some knowledge of these sorts of things and I fear you may have to prepare for a long haul. Try to get past the first shock and deal with matters carefully, with a cool head and be patient. Good luck~Tom
 
unreal!!! dont allow this to happen,basc would be my first call.they have some top people for thi work and you should insist they help. you have done nothing wrong and been treated shockingly.as with the other replies get legal advice,again basc have top people that know firearms law inside out.good luck with this,i wish you well keep us updated if you dont mind.
 
You describe a frightful follow-up to what must have been massively stressful months of your wife's serious mental illness, and you have my sympathy on both counts.

I'm afraid I've not idea of what happens when a certificate is revoked, but the most important general advice (already given, but worth emphasising) is to keep careful contemporaneous dispassionately-written notes of all dealings and the content of discussions you've had with police, FEOs and so on during and after the seizure.

Have a look at 10.53 onwards in the Home Office Guidance.

It would be worth rediscussing with BASC and seeing what they suggest re. getting formal legal advice and what best to do with the bolts and ammunition which the police seem to have left you unlawfully possessing.

If this has arisen because of your wife's recent mental illness, do the police for some reason believe that she might be in a position to open your cabinet/s?

In any case, this sounds a most distressing occurrence.
 
As an ex copper i know that there are gooduns as well as baduns. And it's refreshing to see that you got some who were decent. Sorry you got the sh*te as well

Police Complaints Commission is where you want to go if you're getting no joy from the Force themselves as they are independent

http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/

Good luck mate and I hope it goes ok, both for your wife and guns because this is the last thing you need at this time. If there is anything I can do to help just pm me

ATB

Andrew
 
May I suggest you contact Adrian Dagger who is a specialist firearms solicitor. Sorry he is in Crawley Sussex but he is good at what he does.

01293-403399
Fax 01293-403390
Mobile 07711-628481

Hope that helps. Oh This is the new training..

The Police do not and cannot make mistakes or be wrong in any way.

I just got his number out of the HBSA report quarterly magazine.

Oh yes and they really believe that too. The head of Lincolnshire Firearms Licensing stood in our front room and said :-

We don't make mistakes.
 
simon,

I am 100% behind you and hope david@basc whom is an active member on here jumpsin and helps.
from what you say the police acted heavy handed and you should write to the chief inspector, even post his email on here and i would write asking for an explanation into their conduct as should all members.
But, and there is always a but, helmet on simon, they have a right to do as they have mate. they are acting in the best interests of the public albeit they may have acted unprofessionally whilst doing it.
now i know there is a way to do things and from the sounds of it they have done it arxe over txts.
i am sorry for your and your families predicament and i wish i was a neighbour to offer some help.

i hope you and especially your wife are ok and hope the wee ones can get over this intrusion.

atb f.
 
dont give up the main thing is your wife is on the mend you will get your guns back in time police attude as you come to expect in uk
good luck on your comeing battle
colin
 
Hope your wife makes a good recovery. My advice would be to log every dealing you have with the police and any legal advice you seek, regardless who it is off. I had to do similar not so long ago and it paid off. It may seem minor at the time but could be of extreme importance a few months down the line. Good luck. The police should be there to help so stay calm, keep in touch with your licensing manager and i am sure you can resolve this problem. I will be interested to hear if any of the shooting organisations help you as when i had a major problem some time ago, they gave me no help whatsoever. Regards, Ed.
 
they are acting in the best interests of the public

From who exactly?
The way this force has acted it sounds like they would take a chaps FAC for having an argument with his Mrs.
I wish you well Simon and best wishes to your family.
basil.
 
As an ex cop who always tried to treat the people I dealt with in the same manner I would wished to be treated by the police I shudder when I read these incidents.

Firearms Licensing Officers routinely research all Police held info objectively looking for anything regarding licence holders. You must consider that somebody has gone to the Police with information regarding your wife's illness and raised concerns over you being a FAC holder and her residing with you. Bearing in mind patient confidentiality and the remote possibility that medical staff knew that you were the holder of firearms I would doubt this to be the source. Perhaps it is now normal practice to involved armed officers and CID officers in these matters but this would make me consider what exactly the information passed to Police consisted off. I would suggest that it is more than the fact that your wife has been ill. What I have said may pose more questions than answers.

I would suggest that you engage a solicitor and thereafter ask for a meeting with the head of the Licensing Dept to discuss the removal of your firearms and the reasons. This may explain the why but not the manner in which it was done.

I personally know of one man whose firearms were removed after his son who resided with him got himself into trouble with the law. Even although the holder of the FAC has no convictions or has ever acted in a manner which would give cause for concern the fact that his son resided in the same house and could gain access to his firearms caused him to loose them. Like you he was told if his son moved out his guns would be returned.
 
PM me your membership number and I will go and speak with the BASC firearms officer assigned to your case to get a sit rep.

David
 
they are acting in the best interests of the public

From who exactly?
basil.


Basil,

this is and was a general statement and as stated i support simon 100%, especially his wife and children and also offered my help,
i am even delighted to read that david has made contact as expected on this thread also.
back to my statement, albeit hard to explain without seeming like a bad guy, if anyone in the house hold of a fac holder has or is in a position to gain access to the said fire arms the police in the best interests of the public have and will enforce the right to revoke the said fac and or remove the said firearms if they feel there is a need.
i would hope that someone somewhere has the correct wording but,

there is no point in saying to simon oh thats not right and getting him more upset than he is.
there is loads on here whom have had restrictions and/or other types if interference on there applications for fac because of their own familys or their associates.
i been one.
Simon i meant no indignity mate and no inference to you and hope you see that. i was merely stating a fact.
my help is there mate, i would be happy to fit an alarm for you at cost if the police felt that would make things easier for you to get your guns etc back.

frank
 
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