Firearms in vehicles.

ANDREW243

Well-Known Member
Can anybody tell me if a firearm must be slipped when on public highway,driving between fields and permissions.Thanks.
 
I don't believe there's any specific reason in firearms law to put a rifle in a sleeve under such circumstances; although it might, of course, on occasion be prudent to do so.
 
on occasion be prudent to do so.

100% prudent mate, think outside the box.
what if a townie passed a car/jeep with a rifle sitting anywhere in the vehicle in full view, the world of pooh you could be in... even for 100yards no way.

to many what ifs and maybes, not in today's climate, sleeved and bolt removed.

not debatable

f.
 
Can anybody tell me if a firearm must be slipped when on public highway,driving between fields and permissions.Thanks.
Slipped, unloaded and bolt out. One sighting of that gun by joe public could cause a major incident. The best of it is, you wont know about it until a force helicopter is swooping on your position and armed police are pointing mp5s at you urging you to go prone with your lips kissing the mud. It does happen, i have personal experience. Not good.
 
Slipped, unloaded and bolt out. One sighting of that gun by joe public could cause a major incident. The best of it is, you wont know about it until a force helicopter is swooping on your position and armed police are pointing mp5s at you urging you to go prone with your lips kissing the mud. It does happen, i have personal experience. Not good.

as above, but slips can cause a problem too, dropped a rifle at my local gunshop for some work, and took the slip home with me, I put it in the back of my commercial jeep (only window in the back door not in sides) and stopped at the supermarket on the way home, returni ng to the van with my trolley of shopping I am greated by 2 PCSOs on there bikes with the words do you have a weapon in the back of your vehicle, answer no, can we have a look ? o.k, show empty slip, asked them how they thought I had a weapon in there, member of the public had informed them he had seen the slip, so I asked did they have his name, NO, had they considered he thought there might be tools in the back worth nicking and thats why he was looking in there, red faces all aound, I now always fold my slips when left in the truck.
 
100% prudent mate, think outside the box.
what if a townie passed a car/jeep with a rifle sitting anywhere in the vehicle in full view, the world of pooh you could be in... even for 100yards no way.

to many what ifs and maybes, not in today's climate, sleeved and bolt removed.

not debatable

f.

Well, it clearly is debatable.

My practice when driving from one bit of foxing beat to another is to pop the rounds 'below', remove the mag, close the bolt, apply the safety and shove the rifle on the back seat. I suppose if it were daylight and I was in a particularly sensitive area, I could chuck a rug over it: no naughty rifle-case to frighten the passers-by!:)
 
if i am out anywhere or stalking and leave a slip in the vehicle i always unzip it and leave it wide open so as anybody can see it is empty for above reasons and because i dont want some little oik breaking my window because he thinks there is a gun in the car
 
I'm persuming ur in the car actually driving between fields permissions, if that is the case in scotland u don't have to have rifle slipped.
I phoned basc scotland about lamping from a quad bike (quad road legal and insured) and driving on public roads between fields the advice they gave was rifle could be slung on back(underloaded for safety) and no slip was needed. i think u have to have good reason thou ie between farms/fields and not miles away on route to ur permission. i would phone basc/sga etc or whoever ur a member off, thats wot u pay ur money for and atleast u get the rite advice.

Never thought about folding slips before but will in future althou i generally put a jacket/rug over my slips anyway
 
My CHOICE is not to show anything. Don't get out of the wagon in Cammo to fill up etc. Blood isn't good as well....

Stan
 
An Angus gamekeeper was 12 miles from any public road and was on a private hill road... a "bobbly hat" townie was walking past his unoccupied land rover and seen a slipped gun and several shotgun cartridges on the dash... the police attended and the 'keeper lost his FAC/SGC, his job, his house the lot.
 
An Angus gamekeeper was 12 miles from any public road and was on a private hill road... a "bobbly hat" townie was walking past his unoccupied land rover and seen a slipped gun and several shotgun cartridges on the dash... the police attended and the 'keeper lost his FAC/SGC, his job, his house the lot.

Loss of FAC/SGC seems a rather a severe outcome, assuming the vehicle was locked.
 
There is no mention of gun slips in any firearms legislation in Scotland. What you are referring to here is best practice.

The horror stories and myths spread by others regarding this should be checked by calling the SGA or BASC or SACS legal departments. You cannot get charged with something that is not on the statute book, but you can draw unecessary attention to yourself and they will find something to ruin your day.

to every PLOD you are nothing but a potential criminal and a big gold star.
 
If I am going to be driving on the public high way, rifle is unloaded with magazine empty and bolt out (if bolt action) and is in slip in boot of car out of siight to casual inspection. Bolt is in my pocket. I also take off camoflaged coat and put that in the boot as well, as I leave my knife in its sheath in one of the pockets.

When I leave car, all shooting stuff is out of sight in the boot. And don't have any window stickers as I am sure a BASC / Stalking Directory / SGA or other sticker is just inviting a brick from some NED. I also try to get car well off and out of sight of the road before taking out the rifle etc.
 
Whilst there may be no mention of gunslips in the legislation "Plod" as Diesledan calls them expects you to display a certain level of common sense. Change best practice for common sense. If you have no common sense you shouldn't have a FAC. You after all have a responsibility for the security of your rifles. Have a read of Condition 4a and b on your FAC. Whilst they may not charge you with allowing your rifle to appear naked in public, it may be seen as failing to comply with a condition on your FAC. WHY RUN THE RISK.

In transit my rifle is in a gunslip or case which is out of sight and secured to the car by a security chain similar to those used by motorcyclists. Yes a complete pain in the arse but it gives peace of mind as I have fully covered every ACPO recommendation. It takes six seconds to undo the security chain. Bolt with me . Ammo stored seperately and if I leave the car that also comes with me. My knives are never worn until I get to the forest. They are also out of sight in a large plastic box with the rest of the kit. After all why give Plod the opportunity to get a Gold Star.

There are still a few police officers who know how to do their job (they tend to be the older ones) and have respect for the public but if you get the overzealous one you will end up providing a DNA sample. No Plod do not get Gold Stars just the satisfaction of removing a firearm from a person who isn't fit to have possession of one in the first place. After all if the police screw up you have recourse at law to have your weapons back. It is the Crown Court in England and the Sheriff's Court up here.

Arriving at Diggle ranges in June I parked alongside a right old battered heap. I opened the boot and unlocked the case and put the rifle on the ground. The occupant of the old battered heap saw what I had done and said something along the lines of "that makes sense". I didn't know at the time but I have since shot the McMillian with the guy and he is a police firearms instructor and Plod sniper. He now does exactly the same.

Let me explain what will happen if you loose one even if you are clearly not at fault. Your world will change for eighteen months. You will be invited to attend the police station on more than one occassion. You will hear that magical phrase from every cop programme "You do not have to say------" You will not sleep and you will have the threat of prosecution hanging over you every minute of every day. You may loose your career, house and respect.

IS IT WORTH IT????????????????????????
 
Well, it clearly is debatable.

My practice when driving from one bit of foxing beat to another is to pop the rounds 'below', remove the mag, close the bolt, apply the safety and shove the rifle on the back seat. I suppose if it were daylight and I was in a particularly sensitive area, I could chuck a rug over it: no naughty rifle-case to frighten the passers-by!:)

Hmm, bit dodgy here. There is no real obligation in law to slip a firearm or a shotgun. It is an offence to have a loaded shotgun in a public place (which includes your car) or a loaded firearm or any firearm without good reason. In the eyes of the law, having rounds in the magazine, whether its in the rifle or in your glove box for example means that the firearm is loaded. You can have the gun unslipped but not rounds in the mag or gun.
 
Hmm, bit dodgy here.
No it isn't. Not remotely.:)


There is no real obligation in law to slip a firearm or a shotgun.
I agree.


It is an offence to have loaded shotgun in a public place (which includes your car) or ... any firearm without good reason.
Actually, it is 'any other firearm (whether loaded or not) together with ammunition suitable for use in that firearm' and the good reason is (unsurprisingly) that I'm out foxing. Loaded or unloaded makes no difference under the Firearms Act.


In the eyes of the law, having rounds in the magazine, whether its in the rifle or in your glove box for example means that the firearm is loaded.
The rifle is 'loaded' if the charged magazine is in it. If the rifle is free from rounds, it is not loaded. Not that it makes any difference under the Firearms Act (see above).


You can have the gun unslipped but not rounds in the mag or gun.
Actually, within the bounds of common sense you can do what you like. When I had a foxing rifle with a fixed magazine, I used just to put the rounds below when driving between beats. The Firearms Act does not recognise the difference in a rifle between a charged magazine and a chambered round: I do, though!

I approve entirely of people taking reasonable precautions at all times. The whole rigmarole of all shooting gear out of sight, bolts out, ammunition hidden and so on is exactly what I do when transporting rifles and guns from home to shooting-grounds. These journeys may go through towns, may be in daylight, might involve stopping for fuel and so on. So be it.

However, when driving a vehicle off one field, down a road a wee bit and then onto another one in the middle of nowhere in the dark when I am either in the vehicle or within 5yds of the locked vehicle, I think my 'precautions' are entirely reasonable.

We must be grateful that we have been granted the freedom under the Firearms Acts and Police Security Guidance to make up our own minds on these matters, knowing that we might well have to justify out actions to the Police or Courts at some point. I do sometime worry that excess zeal in some might be used to raise the bar of 'reasonable', but I guess that's life.

As an aside, I'm happy to wear (discretely) a knife when I have a reasonable excuse, such as I'm on my way to shoot bunnies or stalk deer. I suppose I could leave it in the vehicle, but then, just like the bolt which I also carry under such circumstances, it might get into the wrong hands. Just a thought.
 
Yep, I stand corrected, the Anti Social Behaviour Act 2002 changed the 'loaded magazine' issue, but only for shotguns and air rifles.

I can only blame the BASC employee who told me a couple of weeks ago to check my rifle mag was unloaded before I drove home.:lol:
 
Spiker,

You seem to be preaching to the choir. WHY? I only mentioned you cannot be charged with something that is not on the statute book in Scotland. The reason I highlighted this was that some keepers were charged with it by local police and it got tossed once the SGA legal team got involved. There are a lot is myths flying around and as you rightly point out common sense should prevail, but it takes both parties to exercise common sense.

When you have PLOD's budgie 15m overhead it changes your perspective.

Enough, we all do our part to ensure we are not careless individuals and who are conscientious, responsible, safe gun owners.

Time out
 
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