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Thread: Trophy Lion Hunts "Unsustainable"

  1. #1

    Trophy Lion Hunts "Unsustainable"

    Any thoughts on this article on the BBC website? I am going to be discussing it with my Game Management class later this week and thought it was interesting enough to post up here:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/earth/hi/earth...00/8993557.stm

  2. #2
    I've never been to Africa and know nothing of its politics but here is my take on it based on similar questions posed and answered in publications in America and Canada and at home in the U.K..
    It's a Catch 22 situation.
    Yes you must shoot less beasts to raise the population, but if quotas are dropped to allow the full wishes of the conservation bodies then the hunting may be unecconomical and then the land reverts to poachers paradise for a couple of years then there is nothing. No operator is going to pay for the policing of a non profitable concession.
    Perhaps there is a place for the rotation of concessions, allowing the cats to grow old, with the hunters paying a premium to the government for a better class of trophy and the government making a cast-iron commitment to police the 'sleeping concessions'. In turn the hunters would have to commit to not drawing cats from sleeping concessions with restrictions on the proximity of bait stations and perhaps enforce no-go corridors inbetween.
    Hunting cats is not a poormans pursuit and a small raise in license fees would go a long way to paying the wages of men on the ground and I'm pretty certain that the guys hunting cats would soon find another 'few bob' if they thought they could upgrade their four year old pussy cat to a full M.G.M, black maned, battle scarred veteran lion. I think as usual it will take money to make a difference and as stated by the article, without hunters money there would be no cats left for the conservation bodies to count.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by liamnjs View Post
    Any thoughts on this article on the BBC website? I am going to be discussing it with my Game Management class later this week and thought it was interesting enough to post up here:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/earth/hi/earth...00/8993557.stm
    will it actually help, as I don't recall many lions loose in the UKFPRIVATE "TYPE=PICT;ALT=0"

    If it was not for trophy hunters in certain countries, then I feel shooting would not survive to a standard exceptable to the rest of the world and poaching would be the main cause for demise of a lot of the world's species of game animals
    just watch the effect that is about to unfold in Asia
    http://www.huntingreport.com/trophy_...ils.cfm?id=512

    How many now will flock to shoot the "Giant Muntjac" with this shabby outfit
    even the Guide or bloke pulling the trigger admits he got it wrong , even the wrong sex
    how detrimentall will this be for years to come till they regulate it
    by then the locals will of stepped up their campaign to survive

    I feel you would be better off discussing the effects of producing better quality heads in Fallow in the UK and how to manage red hinds or water deer, may be throw in a twist of about coots and usage of grass carp for weed control
    you could even suggest about planting areas out that are suitable for helping the increase of woodcock and nightjar numbers or maybe about cash crops for estates like elephant grass and Xmas trees
    something usefull and beneficial to most of their potential careers that I would assume they will need for a job here in the uk
    ATB

  4. #4
    There are very few countries in Africa where you can hunt Lion fair chase. The BBC report is centered around Tanzania, which has always been one the most expensive Africa countries to hunt in, even for plains game.

    Lion hunting has always been at the top end of big game hunting and the demand has always been high, although other countries such as Zambia, Zimbabwe and Botswana also hold Lion populations. Lions need a huge area, and take about 6 to 7 years to mature and become what an outfitter would regard as a mature trophy Lion.

    Some outfitters may have allowed young Lions to be taken, that are not mature, I am not accusing anyone here, but it does happen I am sure, especially if you have a client who is not that fit and just wants a Lion.

    I have never taken a Lion, I have hunted Leopard twice, but never connected, which is not unusual with these cats. I have just returned from 2 weeks in South Africa and a visit to the Kruger Park. I was very fortunate to see two massive male Lion at night at a distance of about 8ft ftom the vehicle. It was a sereal moment and one could not help but feel so insignificant in the prescence of such majestic beasts.

    ATB

    Sikamalc

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by stone View Post
    I feel you would be better off discussing the effects of producing better quality heads in Fallow in the UK and how to manage red hinds or water deer, may be throw in a twist of about coots and usage of grass carp for weed control
    you could even suggest about planting areas out that are suitable for helping the increase of woodcock and nightjar numbers or maybe about cash crops for estates like elephant grass and Xmas trees
    something usefull and beneficial to most of their potential careers that I would assume they will need for a job here in the uk
    ATB
    [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]
    Never fear, the students on the course I run are with me and my team for over 20 hours a week for two years, and we cover everything you have mentioned and plenty more besides. I do however like to expand their horizons a little, and I actually have a couple of students from Africa and certainly one or two who hope to work abroad, so the occassional discussion of something a little more exotic helps to maintain their interest!

  6. #6
    Don't worry mate
    I was not trying critising the criteria you cover as I know you try to ensure a vast range of info and pratical methods are undertaken
    I just felt that the time spent over the 2 years is realy never enough to fully cover all that is needed in the present climate
    but I can see your point in trying to keep them interested
    but out of interest hav you thought of a visit to a working Farm where they do Wild Deer management, run a fishery on both still water and canals , aswell as a pheasant /duck shoot and also grow a cash crop other than arable and meat
    Pm me if you are interested in a day trip at some point, as this is some thing you may well not cover in your course but could proove quite usefull
    ATB

  7. #7
    Its a fairly balanced report (surprisingly for the BEEB).

    I lived and hunted in Tanzania for ten years and knew many of the professional hunters operating there.

    What the report fails to mention is the politics of the whole thing - in many (probably most) cases the quotas are set by the ministry (Ofisi ya Malia Sili) at impossibly high levels, way above that seen as sensible by the PH on the ground, simply to boost revenue. A big scam ten years or so ago was the subdivision of the blocks - but not the quota - ergo quotas doubled but without the means to sustain them.

    It looks like this is coming back to bite them (the government, not the lions).

    Now having said all of the above lions are not scarce in Tanzania and leopards are very, very common - just not often seen.

    From this distance it was a priveledge to walk the open bush with a 375 and a fifteen quid license for a buff in my pocket.

  8. #8
    We had 117 lion in 2009, all free-roaming and all quantified as 'problem animals' by Namibia's Dept of Tourism and Environment and we have trophy tags for lion and elephant in Kaokoland and Damaraland for 2011.

    Not many, but we have them.

    Namibia isn't running out of lions just yet and the real number of lions shot is never recorded. If those in power just agreed to use the 'research' money to compensate farmers for their dead livestock, then more of the animal attacks that we know take place would be recorded and the animals left in peace (for us to hunt). Cattle and Sheep farmers kill predators so that they don't loose money as a result of their livestock being eaten. Few if any care where the money comes from and if they get 50 for a sheep at auction then were given the same 50 if one were taken by a leopard and reported, then the real number of leopard, cheetah, lion etc would be known and in turn protected from farmers simply looking after their own best interests......

    Lecture over, sorry folks, now, who wants to come lion hunting?

  9. #9
    Word of warning - in the 12 hours since posting this I've been hit with a deluge of hate mail both to my business email address and to my facebook page regarding lion hunting - it's too close to be a coincidence folks and I wonder if any others have had the same experience today?

  10. #10
    I've not experienced that, but I don't think my details are as accessible as yours. I'll be looking up that Facebook page of yours though!

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