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Thread: Difficulty closing the bolt.

  1. #1

    Difficulty closing the bolt.

    With some of my reloads, from once fired factory ammo, I've had difficulty closing the bolt. The rounds all measure the same OAL, the cases are all within tolerance for case length and they have all been done in the same batch. 12 rounds out of 50 have had this problem, the have all been neck sized with a Lee Neck sizing die. The only marks noticable on the brass is a small circular mark made by the extractor spring, sometimes this can be seen to scrape round as the bolt has closed. (I've attached some photo's for clarity!)

    As these have been once fired factory loads I know they can't be signs of high pressure, as I've said the measurements all seem fine, so is it something I'm doing in resizing?

    Advice please..........

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  2. #2
    I had exactley the same problem with my sauer 202 .243 with once fired fedral brass although i could chamber them some were taking a lot of effort,don't know why but overcame it by partially resizing the cases, its fine now,i'm guessing the chamber is rather tight.
    Neil.

  3. #3
    Hi Dawnraider,

    Were you using a full length resizing die? I have just been thinking of investing in a Forster full length resizing die, if it will solve the problem I think it could be worth it.

  4. #4
    Hi Scott,
    Yes use a full length sizing die and just back it off a bit,i found a 20 pence piece gave about the right amount of spacing between the shell holder and the die, i use an RCBS one but any FL die will do it,i noticed you're also using federal brass i've not actually tried any other makes of brass in mine don't know if it would make a difference or not.
    ATB Neil.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnraider View Post
    Hi Scott,
    Yes use a full length sizing die and just back it off a bit,i found a 20 pence piece gave about the right amount of spacing between the shell holder and the die, i use an RCBS one but any FL die will do it,i noticed you're also using federal brass i've not actually tried any other makes of brass in mine don't know if it would make a difference or not.
    ATB Neil.
    The problem looks to be your ejector. Either the spring is too stout or the travel impeded, or the sharp edges need to be polished a bit. It shouldn't scar your brass like that. On that one case, the "F" is almost obliterated and a raised edge formed. (at least that's how it looks). I'd get the ejector looked at before I adjusted my dies. JMHO~Muir

  6. #6
    Brass initially fired in another rifle should be full-length re-sized before you attempt to use it in your own.
    Chamber tolerances can vary considerably from one rifle to another.

    HWH.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by ScottC View Post
    With some of my reloads, from once fired factory ammo, I've had difficulty closing the bolt. The rounds all measure the same OAL, the cases are all within tolerance for case length and they have all been done in the same batch. 12 rounds out of 50 have had this problem, the have all been neck sized with a Lee Neck sizing die. The only marks noticable on the brass is a small circular mark made by the extractor spring, sometimes this can be seen to scrape round as the bolt has closed. (I've attached some photo's for clarity!)

    As these have been once fired factory loads I know they can't be signs of high pressure, as I've said the measurements all seem fine, so is it something I'm doing in resizing?

    Advice please..........

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	2783Click image for larger version. 

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    Hi there

    This is probably a case (forgive the pun) of granny and sucking eggs but we all tend to forget the simple things from time to time so forgive me if this is already known.

    When the round was fired in the gun that first saw it, the case would have expanded to meet the inside dimensions of the chamber - this is known as fire forming and something that is desirable if it's your rifle through which the rounds will be cycled. Once fireformed to your chamber they should not need to be resized other than through a neck sizing die. However, it would appear that the cases you have have been fireformed to a different chamber and hence the need to return them to something close to spec. You will need to full length resize and length trim as a full length resize does tend to help them grow a little.

    Once done - and before they are primed - just try chambering the cases and see how that fits. Hopefully, they'll be fine. Then seat a bullet into a single case (no charge or primer to keep things safe) and check if it chambers smoothly. If yes then problem solved, if not then check the bullet tip for sign of pushing against the lands as there may be a problem with the seating depth and if so beck it in gently and see how the chambering feels. There would also be some benefit in getting the bolt striped and serviced just to be sure that nothing untoward is going on there

    The extractor pin marking is not in itself a pressure sign but can be indicative of a number of things - none of which are major. Possible reasons can include: crap in the extractor pin spring not allowing it to compress normally, Spring too strong - would indicate though that at sometime the bolt may have been dismantled and serviced, a bit of corrision on either the pin or port causing it to stick a little.

    Hope that help some

    Fabnosh


  8. #8
    Thank you for all the replies people. They got me doing some checks!

    I should have mentioned before but the 'once fired brass' has only been once fired in my rifle, it is all factory brass I've kept from federal ammo I've bought in the past. I am aware that any brass used in another rifle requires full length sizing, at the minute the only brass I have has only been shot in my rifle and therefore I have only been using a neck sizer.

    I have also cycled through the rifle many rounds that have been resized this way without a problem, but every so often this occurs. I have also, just today as a test, cycled through twenty rounds of factory ammo without a problem. Due to this I don't think it's a problem with the bolt. I've also cycled some reloads and it is only the cases with the marks on them that stick, not many from the batch. (It was all carried out in a safe manner)

    I'll try the full length re-sizing and see how it goes, if not I'll chuck the offending cases!

    Are the Forster dies recommended?

  9. #9
    To me they look like you had a good bit of over pressure in them loads and the brass has flowed back into the ejector port to create the look of smearing.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by ScottC View Post
    With some of my reloads, from once fired factory ammo, I've had difficulty closing the bolt. The rounds all measure the same OAL, the cases are all within tolerance for case length and they have all been done in the same batch. 12 rounds out of 50 have had this problem, the have all been neck sized with a Lee Neck sizing die. The only marks noticable on the brass is a small circular mark made by the extractor spring, sometimes this can be seen to scrape round as the bolt has closed. (I've attached some photo's for clarity!)

    As these have been once fired factory loads I know they can't be signs of high pressure, as I've said the measurements all seem fine, so is it something I'm doing in resizing?

    Advice please..........

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	2783Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	2785Click image for larger version. 

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    hi ScottC
    this sounds like head a space problem .have you tryed a fired case before you have resize it, if this go's in and the bolt has no lock up use your gage and take the sizes from this case, then have a look at a resize case if the shoulder degree is not the same you need to shoulder bump your resized cases then try one befor you load it up if this case go's in ok then make up a dummy case/head try this if this is ok and the bolt face to case base shows no scrapping.( the marks on your brass seam to show that your loaded round is tight in the breach and prob'y has no marks on the bullet OG) .the other way is to use blacking from a candel around the case neck (old school ) this will show if the case is over head space .sometimes brass can be pulled back up and reajust the
    shoulder on the upward motion when loading try polishing inside the die with a dowl with 1200 wetndry this will remove any shoulder grab in your die and use spray to ezz loading. if this works load to this case size "you will need to buy or borrow a bump gage for this" . the OG gage coparator seating setup will give you your chamber size to load to and that would now be the case prep and finnish size for you rifle .i have had this with Sako 85 .308 and tikka .243 rifles and my AR15 .223 . I hope this is some use a bit long winded but it will pay off in the long run and impove shoot placement and save brass damage ect:

    shoot tight eat lots.
    paul o'
    Last edited by paul o'; 25-09-2010 at 20:23.

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