Difficulty closing the bolt.

SC243

Well-Known Member
With some of my reloads, from once fired factory ammo, I've had difficulty closing the bolt. The rounds all measure the same OAL, the cases are all within tolerance for case length and they have all been done in the same batch. 12 rounds out of 50 have had this problem, the have all been neck sized with a Lee Neck sizing die. The only marks noticable on the brass is a small circular mark made by the extractor spring, sometimes this can be seen to scrape round as the bolt has closed. (I've attached some photo's for clarity!)

As these have been once fired factory loads I know they can't be signs of high pressure, as I've said the measurements all seem fine, so is it something I'm doing in resizing?

Advice please..........

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I had exactley the same problem with my sauer 202 .243 with once fired fedral brass although i could chamber them some were taking a lot of effort,don't know why but overcame it by partially resizing the cases, its fine now,i'm guessing the chamber is rather tight.
Neil.
 
Hi Dawnraider,

Were you using a full length resizing die? I have just been thinking of investing in a Forster full length resizing die, if it will solve the problem I think it could be worth it.
 
Hi Scott,
Yes use a full length sizing die and just back it off a bit,i found a 20 pence piece gave about the right amount of spacing between the shell holder and the die, i use an RCBS one but any FL die will do it,i noticed you're also using federal brass i've not actually tried any other makes of brass in mine don't know if it would make a difference or not.
ATB Neil.
 
Hi Scott,
Yes use a full length sizing die and just back it off a bit,i found a 20 pence piece gave about the right amount of spacing between the shell holder and the die, i use an RCBS one but any FL die will do it,i noticed you're also using federal brass i've not actually tried any other makes of brass in mine don't know if it would make a difference or not.
ATB Neil.

The problem looks to be your ejector. Either the spring is too stout or the travel impeded, or the sharp edges need to be polished a bit. It shouldn't scar your brass like that. On that one case, the "F" is almost obliterated and a raised edge formed. (at least that's how it looks). I'd get the ejector looked at before I adjusted my dies. JMHO~Muir
 
Brass initially fired in another rifle should be full-length re-sized before you attempt to use it in your own.
Chamber tolerances can vary considerably from one rifle to another.

HWH.
 
With some of my reloads, from once fired factory ammo, I've had difficulty closing the bolt. The rounds all measure the same OAL, the cases are all within tolerance for case length and they have all been done in the same batch. 12 rounds out of 50 have had this problem, the have all been neck sized with a Lee Neck sizing die. The only marks noticable on the brass is a small circular mark made by the extractor spring, sometimes this can be seen to scrape round as the bolt has closed. (I've attached some photo's for clarity!)

As these have been once fired factory loads I know they can't be signs of high pressure, as I've said the measurements all seem fine, so is it something I'm doing in resizing?

Advice please..........

View attachment 2783View attachment 2785View attachment 2784

Hi there

This is probably a case (forgive the pun) of granny and sucking eggs but we all tend to forget the simple things from time to time so forgive me if this is already known.

When the round was fired in the gun that first saw it, the case would have expanded to meet the inside dimensions of the chamber - this is known as fire forming and something that is desirable if it's your rifle through which the rounds will be cycled. Once fireformed to your chamber they should not need to be resized other than through a neck sizing die. However, it would appear that the cases you have have been fireformed to a different chamber and hence the need to return them to something close to spec. You will need to full length resize and length trim as a full length resize does tend to help them grow a little.

Once done - and before they are primed - just try chambering the cases and see how that fits. Hopefully, they'll be fine. Then seat a bullet into a single case (no charge or primer to keep things safe) and check if it chambers smoothly. If yes then problem solved, if not then check the bullet tip for sign of pushing against the lands as there may be a problem with the seating depth and if so beck it in gently and see how the chambering feels. There would also be some benefit in getting the bolt striped and serviced just to be sure that nothing untoward is going on there

The extractor pin marking is not in itself a pressure sign but can be indicative of a number of things - none of which are major. Possible reasons can include: crap in the extractor pin spring not allowing it to compress normally, Spring too strong - would indicate though that at sometime the bolt may have been dismantled and serviced, a bit of corrision on either the pin or port causing it to stick a little.

Hope that help some

Fabnosh

pencil.png
 
Thank you for all the replies people. They got me doing some checks!

I should have mentioned before but the 'once fired brass' has only been once fired in my rifle, it is all factory brass I've kept from federal ammo I've bought in the past. I am aware that any brass used in another rifle requires full length sizing, at the minute the only brass I have has only been shot in my rifle and therefore I have only been using a neck sizer.

I have also cycled through the rifle many rounds that have been resized this way without a problem, but every so often this occurs. I have also, just today as a test, cycled through twenty rounds of factory ammo without a problem. Due to this I don't think it's a problem with the bolt. I've also cycled some reloads and it is only the cases with the marks on them that stick, not many from the batch. (It was all carried out in a safe manner)

I'll try the full length re-sizing and see how it goes, if not I'll chuck the offending cases!

Are the Forster dies recommended?
 
To me they look like you had a good bit of over pressure in them loads and the brass has flowed back into the ejector port to create the look of smearing.
 
With some of my reloads, from once fired factory ammo, I've had difficulty closing the bolt. The rounds all measure the same OAL, the cases are all within tolerance for case length and they have all been done in the same batch. 12 rounds out of 50 have had this problem, the have all been neck sized with a Lee Neck sizing die. The only marks noticable on the brass is a small circular mark made by the extractor spring, sometimes this can be seen to scrape round as the bolt has closed. (I've attached some photo's for clarity!)

As these have been once fired factory loads I know they can't be signs of high pressure, as I've said the measurements all seem fine, so is it something I'm doing in resizing?

Advice please..........

View attachment 2783View attachment 2785View attachment 2784
hi ScottC
this sounds like head a space problem .have you tryed a fired case before you have resize it, if this go's in and the bolt has no lock up use your gage and take the sizes from this case, then have a look at a resize case if the shoulder degree is not the same you need to shoulder bump your resized cases then try one befor you load it up if this case go's in ok then make up a dummy case/head try this if this is ok and the bolt face to case base shows no scrapping.( the marks on your brass seam to show that your loaded round is tight in the breach and prob'y has no marks on the bullet OG) .the other way is to use blacking from a candel around the case neck (old school ) this will show if the case is over head space .sometimes brass can be pulled back up and reajust the
shoulder on the upward motion when loading try polishing inside the die with a dowl with 1200 wetndry this will remove any shoulder grab in your die and use spray to ezz loading. if this works load to this case size "you will need to buy or borrow a bump gage for this" . the OG gage coparator seating setup will give you your chamber size to load to and that would now be the case prep and finnish size for you rifle .i have had this with Sako 85 .308 and tikka .243 rifles and my AR15 .223 . I hope this is some use a bit long winded but it will pay off in the long run and impove shoot placement and save brass damage ect::)

shoot tight eat lots.
paul o'
 
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The problem looks to be your ejector. Either the spring is too stout or the travel impeded, or the sharp edges need to be polished a bit. It shouldn't scar your brass like that. On that one case, the "F" is almost obliterated and a raised edge formed. (at least that's how it looks). I'd get the ejector looked at before I adjusted my dies. JMHO~Muir

I had some once fired brass from another rifle and although resized the odd one would do exactly the same as this issue. I did what Muir suggested and checked the rims and found a few that were a bit marked by the ejector. Poliched them up with a fine needle file mand all work ok now.
 
Scott

One comment. Before you invest in dies, it's worthwhile looking at what you need to measure your cases. I am a big fan of what used to be Stoney Point and is now marketed by Hornady. I have been looking for the following Hornady reference for quite a while, so thanks for helping me find it today.

http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/catalog/2009/69-70_precision_gauges.pdf

I use the Lock-N-Load™ Headspace Gauge (.400) quite a bit as I set up my dies for 243 Win and 260 Rem. I don't ever neck size. I want my rounds to cycle smoothly. Measurement can be taken to extremes, however when prepping my brass I will check how much I am bumping the shoulder back and then check the trim length of the case. You can be more elaborate as follows:

The Rifleman's Journal: Basics: Measuring the Case

Finally, it's really helpful to have someone local that can look at your set-up and advise you on an ongoing basis.

Good luck. JCS
 
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Scott

ask a question and you get various replies :)..........


the problem from looking at the photographs is brass flow into the ejector - this is causing that portion of the case to elongate the overall case length and cause difficulty in bolt closure - hence the "smearing" in that area on the case base.


The factory rounds are the issue - in your rifle they appear to generate "high" pressure, if the factory rounds all display this tendancy then this, not the ejector or headspace is the problem.

If all rounds display this tendancy, then I would look towards excess headspace - the case being pushed backwards into the bolt face as the cartrdge is fired causing dangerously high pressure.

Bear in mind that even if the chamber has excess headspace, if the bullets are seated into the lands - pushing the rear of the case up against the bolt face, then the case will be fireformed to that chambers size anyway - as is the case with Ackley Improved cases and EVERY rifles case (as every rifle is slightly different)


Try taking a piece of wet and dry on a FLAT surface and remove the circular protusion off a couple of cases - without going and deeper to touch the other area of the base - do the cases now chamber ok?


Personally, I would get some new cases - or a few new ones anyway and try your own reloads with the rifle, do you get the same ejector mark on reloads by the way?

Die change?

The problem isnt the dies (IMHO)

Although I would not have opted for Lee, there are many who use them happily without issue.

My preferance are Redding, Forster or Newlon Precision - that I ream myself, in the case of custom chamberings.
 
daft as it sounds , have you used case lube on outside of case when re sizing? if so it's a must to wash it off as this can cause hard closing and sticking cases, just a thought... callie
 
having had another look at photo's, is that an indentation mark from ejector pin or is it a blister? if it's an indentation it may be an overstrong spring or possibly soft/over annealed brass which is not allowing case to spring back after firing as ejector shouldn't mark the base, if it's a blister, as farmer stated in his reply, it's a sure sign of over pressure, failing this have you set up dies as per lees instructions, I take it you've got calipers/verniers, check case dimensions, if it's a die problem you may have very slight bulging between neck and shoulder.....callie
 
faux pah'd again, that should read "between neck and base" not neck and shoulder, please forgive the error of my ways
 
The mark on the base is being caused by where the ejector spring extrudes from when closing the bolt, it takes pressure to close the bolt, not after firing. I think there is excessive head space, which is either being caused when I resize (die not set up correctly or improper use) or as Redmist has stated from the original factory load being fired. I've only had this mark happen when I've tried to chamber new reloads, i.e. they have not been reloaded before, and not happening after firing reloads. I've tried a few different things following the advice given on this thread, like I've said it's only happened with a few rounds. It can't be being caused by firing the reloads as it's happening when chambering them for the first time and I am reloading at the bottom of the recommended amount of powder.

I've ordered myself a full length re-sizing die (needed one anyway) and I'm going to get the Hornady headspace gauge. I'll see how I progress from there. Everyday's a learning day, I'll post how I get on!
 
Brass flow into the ejector is usually accompanied by deformation the rest of the head area. Brass just won't low back in one spot, it is thrust back for its entire surface area. The cases look fine other than the smudges over the ejector. Of course, there is one test you can do: Make up 20 dummy rounds (made exactly as before but without powder or primer) and cycle them through the action. If it is the ejector being sticky you'll know soon enough.~Muir
 
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