Out of Season female shooting

Is it ethical to shoot Hinds & Does out of Season between Mid May - 21st Oct


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sweep 6.5x55

Well-Known Member
Is it ethical to shoot Hinds & Does out of Season between Mid May - 21st Oct

Providing you have all of the correct authorisations etc do you belive it is ethical to shoot out of season females who may have dependant young?

Personally I do not have any issue with culling heavily pregnant Hind and Does but draw the line at shooting females out of season that may have dependant young.

In fact I try not to shoot mature females until Dec

Just interested in people views there have been a couple of threads lately regarding this most of them went off at a tangent so please keep this objective and not get personal.
 
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The estate I used to be a stalker on had a license to shoot hinds out of season.

Whilst I did not have a problem shooting the hinds, I did not particularly enjoy gralloching them to find spaniel size young within - not pleasant and I soon stopped it despite the grief I got from the owner.
 
I dont think the question should be about ethics, more what is the correct thing to do with respect to the balance of the deer and the environment that they are in.

If you are a recreational stalker and there are no pressures to prevent damage to the environment then it is only correct to follow the law and cull within the seasons stated. If however there is a requirement to cull deer to prevent damage and in turn perhaps grant payments and livlihoods, then I'm afraid that the probability is that the deer need to be culled out of season.

The deer should only be culled though following the correct procedures, following best practice and having the correct authorisations etc where required. ;)

I wonder why you are posing this question :-|
 
I don't really like the poll or the limited choice.

I am a recreational stalker, so try and not shoot does with dependant kids/fawns before Christmas. I like them to stand a chance of surviving the winter. But I do do pest control for friends and will shoot pigeons, rats, rabbits, crows etc. at any time of year for crop protection and have no qualms about it. I would shoot deer, any deer, if they really needed culling at any time, providing it was fully authorised and legal. We have to face facts, and the fact is we are the only predator of deer in these lands and it is up to us to redress any balance of nature. Occassionally this may be distasteful, but if you don't like it don't do it.

ft
 
I personally don`t have a problem doing it, although after having to do it in the past as part of the job it isn`t very nice to gralloch a heavily pregnant female and have to kill the young too.:-|

I agree with Jingzy regarding wether you are recreational stalker or not, the environment, and so longs as you have all the proper paperwork, but beware, there are plenty of folk willing to fill your boots if you are not up to the job.

I didn`t think it long before someone would bring up the subject to be honest.

If you are refering to one of the latest posts then they have been shot in an area of Caledonian natural regeneration, where the landowner and stalkers have permission do shoot all deer out of season.

wadas
 
In short, it can be a necessity to shoot out of season and even at night. I’m comfortable with this providing all the paperwork is in place.
When it comes to ethics it’s each to their own I suppose.
Regards
 
hi,

shooting a deer while carrying a calf two weeks from birth to protect a tree.
shoot a mothering deer with a calf at foot who is unable to defend itself if you cant get it too.
not for me, never will be, time and a place and if the trees where really that valuable build a fence.

if your guaranteed both mother and sibling then yes but there has to be a welfare issue not just trees.....



f.

hat on and i voted no.
 
I am interested in how our cousins south of the boarder can manage to protect trees natural heritige etc without night / out of season shooting.:confused:
 
I am interested in how our cousins south of the boarder can manage to protect trees natural heritige etc without night / out of season shooting.:confused:

Not wanting to upset anyone here , but generally they can't

It's an individual thing, doesn't bother me in the slightest, killing deer is killing deer whether it is 1wk old or 12yrs old. The paperwork is a mear human formality it does not diminish the actual act.

A lot of hypocracy about, people on here would happily kill a rat or mouse whether it be pregnant or have dependant young, but will decry you as a devil if you were to shoot a hind at the end of Febuary.
 
hi,

shooting a deer while carrying a calf two weeks from birth to protect a tree.
shoot a mothering deer with a calf at foot who is unable to defend itself if you cant get it too.
not for me, never will be, time and a place and if the trees where really that valuable build a fence.
With you on this one,I have out of seasons 1.oct to 20 oct on does,and 1. oct to 20 oct on hinds dependant young shot first, I am happy to cull on these dates,stags and bucks go through to 31 march the following year,culling mid may should not be neccessary
 
Just interested in people views there have been a couple of threads lately regarding this most of them went off at a tangent so please keep this objective and not get personal.

Not meaning to go off topic , but possibly quite relevant to the original question in a round about way
We South of the border hav Muntjac
The norm and best practice is to shoot heavily pregnant females, some will argue best practice is any female that presents....
I just wondered What those that are not happy to shoot Does and Hinds out of season due to the preggers factor
What will they do when Muntjac come to dinner??
ATB
 
A lot of hypocracy about, people on here would happily kill a rat or mouse whether it be pregnant or have dependant young, but will decry you as a devil if you were to shoot a hind at the end of Febuary.

Sorry your right and i know its been a hypocrite, but i cant class them in the same category as that particular vermin.
I set traps every other night and i care not for the bigger picture of what mouse i get nor what family is left behind.

Yes, therefore i am a hypocrite.

f.
 
I stalked a pair of does tonight,
the buck I was after was over the fence a couple of hundred yards,
I saw a doe and last years youngster, on my side.

I got to 50 ft and could easily have shot both of them, but seasons are seasons, I know they both have been served by a buck and are "technically" pregnant,

as to shooting heavily pregnant does/females, any at the end of march will be well on.
 
There needs to be a line that we do not cross and to leave dependents fpr me is a no no or to risk leaving dependants .I work on seasons and can see no real reason to use a lamp unless the person is under staft and trying to save money. If people were given a realistic target we would not need out of season or a lamp.
 
Well it seems to have remained fairly constant majortity of 3 to 1 against shooting for the pretection of crops etc.

I am amazed up here how easy it is to get a out of season or night liecnce but how there does not seem a requirement south of the border.

I have a good friend who used to work up here for the FC he still works for the FC but now in one of the largest forests in the east of england.
Not only do they not shoot out of season or at night but they also finish culling females at the end of Feb and dont do any culling in March at all.

With an active membership of over 1000 its a shame there are not a few more votes cast
 
I dont think the question should be about ethics, more what is the correct thing to do with respect to the balance of the deer and the environment that they are in.
:thumb:

It's an individual thing, doesn't bother me in the slightest, killing deer is killing deer whether it is 1wk old or 12yrs old. The paperwork is a mear human formality it does not diminish the actual act.
Eggzackly!

people... would happily kill a rat or mouse whether it be pregnant or have dependant young, but will decry you as a devil if you were to shoot a hind at the end of Febuary.
:banghead:

In my opinion - and that it is an OPINION is important - death is death

Of course "death" isn't simple in the context of management, as one death can lead to others - i.e. kill the mother and the child dies. (Note the use of the pejorative "mother" and "child" instead of hind and calf.) Nonetheless, in the context of "ethics" (ptooey - I have come to HATE that word because it is ALWAYS applied as a truncheon to any sort of activity someone ELSE doesn't like), it's very difficult for me to justify "ethically" killing pregnant rabbits and "rough" game and yet balk "ethically" at a pregnant hind. Either the ANIMAL needs to be slaughtered, or it doesn't. There is no "ethics" to it. Why is it criminal (vehicular homicide) to kill a fetus (not the mother) in a car accident, but perfectly legal AND "ethical" to kill that same fetus in an abortion clinic? My intent is not to raise the ugly issue of abortion, but rather to illustrate the hypocrisy that runs not just through our daily lives, but pervades our laws.

Paul
 
Not meaning to go off topic , but possibly quite relevant to the original question in a round about way
We South of the border hav Muntjac
The norm and best practice is to shoot heavily pregnant females, some will argue best practice is any female that presents....
I just wondered What those that are not happy to shoot Does and Hinds out of season due to the preggers factor
What will they do when Muntjac come to dinner??
ATB
you would know that the recommendation to shoot heavily preganant Muntjac is because thats the only real way to ensure you don't leave a dependant kid alive - as they have no fixed breeding season ,oversize rabbits really .
I voted yes for injury but would qualify that with poor condition as well and always spending a good deal of time checking for dependants.
 
Well it seems to have remained fairly constant majortity of 3 to 1 against shooting for the pretection of crops etc.”

I'm surprised it's not a higher ratio as most folk don't night shoot or shoot out of season as not everywhere suffers from excessive deer grazing. Unfortunately where grazing is excessive then year round shooting is required

”I am amazed up here how easy it is to get a out of season or night liecnce but how there does not seem a requirement south of the border.”

Glad to see the lads down south have deer numbers under control. Also pleasing to know that the paperwork/permissions up here are dealt with efficiently.

”I have a good friend who used to work up here for the FC he still works for the FC but now in one of the largest forests in the east of england.
Not only do they not shoot out of season or at night but they also finish culling females at the end of Feb and dont do any culling in March at all.”

Again it's down to deer numbers; get the balance right and life is much more straight forward for us foresters. As an aside it should be noted that it is not just forests that are under threat from overgrazing in Scotland; the problem is becoming more widespread

”With an active membership of over 1000 its a shame there are not a few more votes cast”


I didn’t vote either. Having said that, I would suggest that those who would consider year round/night shooting could be very busy in the future should the deer herds continue to increase.

Regards
 
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