Copper rounds question?

Rasputin

Well-Known Member
Bought a couple of boxes of Federal Copper vital shock for my .270 and iv shot six deer two roe four red in the last two weeks all under 80 yards with the closest 25 yards and with the exception of one shot which wasn’t the best all were well in the engine room and just blew straight through looked like a small rod had passed through very different to the old soft points I used. Is this normal that they didn’t expand given how close the deer were ?

Thanks
 
go back to your soft points,many on here will say solid copper are excellent,i did not find that at all.
 
One prepared earlier through a Sika stag 85m away, shoulder to tail. Started life as 100grn .25-06 recovered weight 99.5grn 100grnbarns99.5left.jpg
 
Bought a couple of boxes of Federal Copper vital shock for my .270 and iv shot six deer two roe four red in the last two weeks all under 80 yards with the closest 25 yards and with the exception of one shot which wasn’t the best all were well in the engine room and just blew straight through looked like a small rod had passed through very different to the old soft points I used. Is this normal that they didn’t expand given how close the deer were ?

Thanks
Did they drop the deer on the spot,or did they run and how far.
Just interested.
Little blood trail I guess.
 
If you want more effect hit a bony bit, they expand like a 1/2 peeled banana and pass through everything
Ok if you eat it yourself, can't see the game dealer being very happy about all the bone splinters
 
I found the Barnes TTSX and LRX worked very well so long as they were driven fast enough and the range wasn't too far. Light for calibre bullets are best. Meat damage is minimal as they don't fragment even though the velocity is high. I stopped using them in busy dog walker/footpath areas down here because everything was a pass though and I worried about deflection and ricochet. I don't use them LR and in Scotland because BC is average for some odd reason and there are better bullets for the job. If the day came when lead was banned I would be confident that they could do the job providing they were driven fast enough but until that day I think there are better bullets on the market.
 
Did they drop the deer on the spot,or did they run and how far.
Just interested.
Little blood trail I guess.

One Roe heart shot (very small hole in the heart) jumped and ran like a scolded cat, another just stood stock still then flopped.

The reds two shots behind the shoulder dropped both on the spot but then could see there heads flopping about which I don’t like. Another double lunged just ran off then I put one on a slightly quartering young stag and he spun round and sprinted into the bushes entry was about fourth rib entry and exit near first but I don’t count that as I know I made a bad shot it was however very close. All passed clean through and next to no sign of blood.

Im still a relative novice but did seem strange compared to the soft point Norma’s I have used when put in the same location. They are very accurate rounds mind and off a bipod will shoot sub inch all day long and I’m sure someone’s better than me could do much better with them.

Thanks
 
The dog will look delighted he'll have work to do...up to 100m away there will be dead deer.

10mm entry significant internal damage 20mm exit. More bruising from shots further back. Breaking bones seems to impart more energy into the deer with not to much more damage unlike soft point or bt.



What happens if you don't hit a bony bit??
 
Bought a couple of boxes of Federal Copper vital shock for my .270 and iv shot six deer two roe four red in the last two weeks all under 80 yards with the closest 25 yards and with the exception of one shot which wasn’t the best all were well in the engine room and just blew straight through looked like a small rod had passed through very different to the old soft points I used. Is this normal that they didn’t expand given how close the deer were ?

Thanks

You don't mention the bullet weight. As already said, with all copper bullets they prefer to be driven faster, so in factory ammo drop to light for calibre bullets (I've been using federal copper 130 gr in 308 as a rough guide). There are exceptions to this on the market now. I hear of good results with Fox copper ammo in more traditional weights, the compromise is in the ballistics. To be honest though, for the vast majority of deer stalking situations long range ballistics aren't an issue.
 
As stated, if you go copper, then you need to drop the bullet weight and drive them much faster! I've been using them for a couple of years now, but I'm going back to lead where I can as I've had far to many runners with copper. Especially smaller animals where it just pencils through and they run off like nothing has happened. You always seem to get an exit, but it will be very small and often with little or no blood loss. The ricochet risk is also far higher as the bullet retains pretty much 100% of mass upon exit. They just don't seen to create the expansion and trauma required to knock deer down as well as lead. That said, I have been using 140 grain TSX mainly and only driving them at 2900 fps which you'd think would be fast enough but clearly isn't. Deadly accurate though!
MS
 
They are 130g says on the box 3000 FPS how true that is I don’t know.

That's probably tested out of a 24" barrel.

I could stoke my .280 AI to stupid speeds with a 100 grain copper bullet, but then there's the danger of making it a HME load exceeding 1000m/s (3280 ft/s)
which can't be used on a lot of ranges and would reduce the barrel life considerably. I like the idea of lead free, but having tried it for a good period of time on lots of different sized deer, I've come to the conclusion that I don't really like them.
MS
 
If you want monolithic copper bullets to deliver the same ratio of quick kills as traditional cup and core bullets, on light skinned, small to medium deer, you're going to need to shoot them in the head.

Shared experience and first hand facts suggest the reality of a lead free hunting future is clear. Delayed expansion, over penetration, zero fragmentation, very narrow wound channels and limited or no peripheral wounding, and a relatively low percentage of impact energy imparted inside the vital zone... all this adds up to demanding you make absolutely no error whatsoever in your shot placement.

If you have a good dog, and/or are used to hunting light to medium game with harder bullets like partitioned, bonded or some of the tougher mechanically locked bullets, then not much will change. You'll be used to over penetration and a higher percentage of long runners and retrieving your deer potentially quite far from where you shot it.

If you don't have a good dog, and/or you need to anchor your game very close to where it was when it was hit, then you're going to need to up your game when it comes to deer anatomy and shot placement. Anything behind the shoulder, broadside, is a big risk. Heart shots? No, don't go there. Breaking the humerus or nailing an internal CNS pathway is pretty much a prerequisite if you don't want the deer to run. Outside of deliberate head and neck shots though, you're gambling, to a greater or lesser extent.

I respect the opinions of those that hunt or have hunted in the past with copper monolithics, I have no quarrel with you, each to their own. Its good to see there are some pragmatic opinions expressed in this thread. I am happy to be hung, drawn and quartered publicly by those that have a difference of opinion based on the experience of multiple deer! It's a game of percentages, we all get runners from time-to-time for whatever reason, but if you adopt monolithics you have to accept some of your metrics will change, and your habits will likely need to be adjusted accordingly.
 
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