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Thread: So can I shoot deer with a 7mm or not?!

  1. #1

    Question So can I shoot deer with a 7mm or not?!

    I recently received my FAC back after renewal. I'd taken the opportunity to add some 7mm calibres to my permissions, for deer and target shooting. I already had empty 6.5x55 and .270Win slots, filled .243 and .308 slots.

    The new certificate retains the 6.5x55 and .270Win slots along with new permissions to buy "7mm" and "7mm-08" rifles (and ammunition, including expanding.)

    All good, I thought.

    However, I just noticed that the conditions listed on the front of the cert, mention the .243, .308, 6.5x55 and .270Win as usuable for fox and deer, but no mention is made of the 7mm calibres.

    Does this mean the new 7mm, calibres aren't cleared for deer/fox, even though "Authorised to acquire expanding ammo" includes 7mm on the next page?

    The final condition (10) suggests I can buy expanding ammo for deer/vermin etc. but doesn't mention calibre.

    Do you think an RFD will refuse to sell me expanding 7mm ammo?
    Do you think I am OK to stalk with 7mm calibres as I do with my other rifles?

    Here are pics of the relevant sections (I've blanked out serial numbers, call me paranoid!):





    Thanks for any advice.

    Xav

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by xavierdoc View Post
    I recently received my FAC back after renewal. I'd taken the opportunity to add some 7mm calibres to my permissions, for deer and target shooting. I already had empty 6.5x55 and .270Win slots, filled .243 and .308 slots.

    The new certificate retains the 6.5x55 and .270Win slots along with new permissions to buy "7mm" and "7mm-08" rifles (and ammunition, including expanding.)

    All good, I thought.

    However, I just noticed that the conditions listed on the front of the cert, mention the .243, .308, 6.5x55 and .270Win as usuable for fox and deer, but no mention is made of the 7mm calibres.

    Does this mean the new 7mm, calibres aren't cleared for deer/fox, even though "Authorised to acquire expanding ammo" includes 7mm on the next page?

    The final condition (10) suggests I can buy expanding ammo for deer/vermin etc. but doesn't mention calibre.

    Do you think an RFD will refuse to sell me expanding 7mm ammo?
    Do you think I am OK to stalk with 7mm calibres as I do with my other rifles?

    Here are pics of the relevant sections (I've blanked out serial numbers, call me paranoid!):





    Thanks for any advice.

    Xav
    That's be a "7mm Boo Boo" then, I guess

  3. #3
    Very similar conditioning to some of Cheshire's printing work. I would have to send it back if it were mine, too much room for bad things to come your way.
    (The Unspeakable In Pursuit Of The Uneatable.) " If I can help, I will help!." Former S.A.C.S. member!

  4. #4
    Hmmm as I read it you do not have permission for 7mm expanding. They say the expanding part comes from the usage conditions here in Lincs yet put EXP besides some ammunition . Now as neither of your 7mm rifles are listed for quarry you have no authority for expanding ammunition or bullets in 7mm. So yes they missed them off.

  5. #5
    Apparently every addition to a FAC is subject to a condition
    How true is that I hav no idea and can't find material proof relating to that as yet
    till then my thoughts on the matter are this

    The problem with this country, Is we are to dependant on being subject to conditions of use and when set free we just want to be chained up again
    When you get a break in life, I find it always a good Idea to take it

    If you read what it says at the start of it all in conditions
    "This certificate is issued subject to the following conditions. It is an offence to fail to comply with any of the conditions below"
    you are not subject to any conditions on your FAC for your 7mm
    it says so or doesn't in your case,
    as you hav not had any conditions put on it but still can buy one and ammo relating to it which are also not subject to any conditions
    BONUS
    It onlys mentions in " Additional conditions may be added here by the chief officer of police " certain rifles and shotgun hav been added and given a specified condition of use


    To me it reads the 7mm's are open for use on any ground you hav permission to shoot on with that particular calibre and can use it for any lawfull species of bird and animal which the landowner has given you permission to take
    I had the same with one of my rifles
    they gave me permission to aquire and also ammo relating to that firearms but NO conditions
    I spoke to BASC about it and they told me I really ought to get a bit more clarity
    I did
    BIG mistake, they slapped a shed load of conditions on it and also put on about certain bullets weights I could not use
    They even tried to force me to use factory loads , as they did not count home loading as meeting satisfactory requirements regarding the law and guide lines as your own loads are not tested upto industry standards , what ever that means
    ~If you feel your FEO has made a mistake , then phone him up and ask him
    then see what conditions are then slapped on it
    your call,
    but atleast you will know
    if it keeps you happy and gives you piece of mind
    then the call will be worth it
    Please keep us informed I would like to know the outcome
    ATB

  6. #6
    Rich, I think most of us are careful in our moves as regards conditions on, or in this case NOT on ticket, as if in future we get pulled up on something......... they would inevitably trot out the "ignorance is no defence " mantra, I see where you are at in relation to this, I suppose it's just a difference in outlook really, I fully expect something similar on return of my certificate, as it is "AGAIN", in to have stuff rectified. Steve.
    (The Unspeakable In Pursuit Of The Uneatable.) " If I can help, I will help!." Former S.A.C.S. member!

  7. #7
    Xav, you clearly have permission for both holding and purchasing expanding ammunition for your 7mm as it is clearly written on your FAC. But the issuing force have not put any conditions on your use of the 7mm.

    I would suggest any competant lawyer would be able to argue that they intend you to use the 7mm for live quarry, hence the expanding ammunition written on your ticket.

    ft
    Blindness to suffering is an inherent consequence of natural selection. Nature is neither kind nor cruel but fiercely indifferent.

  8. #8
    Flyt, any lawyer who might work for the other side of the argument, might hold the view that you cannot comply with a condition that is not there?
    (The Unspeakable In Pursuit Of The Uneatable.) " If I can help, I will help!." Former S.A.C.S. member!

  9. #9
    Looks like the usual simple clerical error from the firearms department.

    You have added to your previous .243, .270, 6.5 & .308 with the 7mm calibres and they haven't reflected it in the fox/deer condition. Real world thinking might suggest that you just get the FAC amended to reflect the additional calibres - chances are they'll realise their mistake at some point and it might not be the best timing for you when they do so, therefore it might be better to get it cleared away when it's convenient for you. From the existing conditions on your ticket I can't see you getting lumbered with anything more onerous than what you already have.

    Don't get too excited about the 'Expanding ammo/missiles' condition - it's only there to cover us for possession as an afterthought following changes to the Firearms Act when they turned all expanding ammo into S.5 prohibited post-Dunblaine but forgot that it wasn't just limited to pistol ammo. In itself it does not provide authority to use on certain quarry species - only the condition for the firearm does that. The current wording shouldn't create any problem for you when purchasing ammo.
    Last edited by Orion; 03-10-2010 at 14:40.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by stone View Post
    If you read what it says at the start of it all in conditions
    "This certificate is issued subject to the following conditions. It is an offence to fail to comply with any of the conditions below"
    you are not subject to any conditions on your FAC for your 7mm
    it says so or doesn't in your case,
    as you hav not had any conditions put on it but still can buy one and ammo relating to it which are also not subject to any conditions
    BONUS
    It onlys mentions in " Additional conditions may be added here by the chief officer of police " certain rifles and shotgun hav been added and given a specified condition of use


    To me it reads the 7mm's are open for use on any ground you hav permission to shoot on with that particular calibre and can use it for any lawfull species of bird and animal which the landowner has given you permission to take
    I had the same with one of my rifles
    ATB
    Quote Originally Posted by finnbear270 View Post
    Flyt, any lawyer who might work for the other side of the argument, might hold the view that you cannot comply with a condition that is not there?
    Finn, I think Stone has the point.

    ft
    Blindness to suffering is an inherent consequence of natural selection. Nature is neither kind nor cruel but fiercely indifferent.

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