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Thread: SGC vs FAC with a combination gun

  1. #1

    SGC vs FAC with a combination gun

    I have just had an odd couple of thoughts while pondering the world as you do.

    I have had my combination Heym 6.5x57-16G added to my UK FAC.
    If while out stalking do I need to have my shotgun certificate with me because it also has a shotgun function.
    Can I buy 16G shotgun cartridges for it by just showing my FAC as it is only entered on this document.


  2. #2
    You raise a number of interesting points.
    1. Is it entered on your SGC? If not, then your SGC is of no moment with respect to this firearm except that holding it will allow you to buy 16bore shot cartridges with a minimum of messing about. Not certificate is required to possess shot cartridges, I think.
    2. You don't need to carry FAC or SGC. Occasionally, we debate whether it is sensible to do so or not: the results, from memory, are inconclusive.

    I imagine this BBF is not on your SGC, because it is not under the Firearms Acts a shotgun, just as a high-capacity pump-action shotgun or a .410 shot pisol is not a shotgun.
    I wonder, though, have they given you an allowance of 16bore cartridges to purchase/hold on your FAC? Not that it matters if you have a SGC.

  3. #3
    The other thing that puzzles me with combination guns is what happens when you have one on FAC with regards to species? Presumably you would also need a game, vermin and flocking birds condition to allow you to use the shotgun barrel on pigeons, game etc?


  4. #4
    I felt it might be an overlooked part of UK firearm legislation.
    I do also have a .270 Win on my FAC but feel it can be too much gun for roe and muntjac.
    Normally I would do pigeon crows with a twin barrel shotgun but if the opportunity arose while roe stalking I would also shoot a fox etc in the UK as roe deer often reside where pheasants are breeding and I wondered if that could be lawbreaking.
    I did shoot a young fox last night with my drilling 16G barrel here in Germany where it is not an issue, but lamping is forbidden.
    Thanks for input

  5. #5
    This is why I eventually got rid of my drilling, the police were just not able to understand that if I had it on a firearm certificate there was no good reason why I should also need a shotgun certificate. To cap it all I then had a visit from them to inspect my "dynamite store". When I expressed puzzlement as to why they should think I had a dynamite store the cop said "well we understand you load your own ammunition and therefore you need to keep the powder and primers in an approved dynamite store." He wasn't actually too stupid and after a coffee and a few chocky biccies we came to a mutual understanding that a biscuit tin in the cupboard under the stairs constituted the dynamite store.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by csl View Post
    The other thing that puzzles me with combination guns is what happens when you have one on FAC with regards to species? Presumably you would also need a game, vermin and flocking birds condition to allow you to use the shotgun barrel on pigeons, game etc?

    I hadn't thought of that! Another good case for 'and any other lawful quarry'?

  7. #7
    the 16g by rights should be added onto your FAC not a SGC
    as the FAC is the more prominent of the 2 tickets and you are infact using a FAC rated firearms
    you may find that your conditions will only relate to the 6.5x57 as the 16g part of the combination may work against itself as the combination will not be thought of as an exceptable firearms for pigeon shooting or the likes
    so possible conditions may be
    "The 16g smooth bore that this ticket relates to may only be used for the destruction of vermin and foxes over land that the holder has permission to shoot for that purpose with that class of firearm whilst out deer stalking"

    you should still be able to purchase 16g carts by just producing your FAC just the same as you would of done with a SGC

    but each force is different with their own set of rules
    in this case I think I would want a bit more clarity , as it involves 2 seperate calibres for one use

  8. #8
    Many combination guns will have fairly short barrels (not all) therefore the shotgun barrel could be under 24" and qualify as a section 1 firearm in it's own right. As Stone says what you have is one firearm with two seperate calibres, one being smoothbore. The conditions on the certificate are probably the main thing to get right, and will take a little bit of thought from the firearms department because it's slightly out of the ordinary in this country. Not to say there shouldn't be any reason why you can't use it simply as a shotgun on occasion, just leave the rifle barrel empty.

  9. #9
    SD Regular
    Join Date
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    East Midlands M1/M69 Junction 21
    When I had a combination gun (a bochbuchsflinte single 16 bore over a 8mm that had been re-lined to .22 LR with barrel length of 29") it was on my FAC with an "any quarry" condition.

    As this was before the changes that required production of any certificate to purchase shot gun cartridges it was never an issue in that respect.

    But the weapon itself should be on an FAC.

  10. #10
    Of course it is already entered on my FAC, I was curious about how it seems to skim along the edge of the UK legislation only because of needing FAC plus a SGC.
    Here in Germany there is only a WBK (waffenbesitzkarte) which covers all posessed firearms.

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