roe deer bullet choice

please choose


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jonathon
are you sure you are just not getting too wrapped up in all of this and making it difficult for yourself? If you want a bullet that is suitable for Roe and foxes then get a bullet that is suitable for Roe and it will surely do for foxes as well. Swampy has already highlighted for you what is a hunting and what is a varmint bullet, so pick a hunting bullet that is accurate in your gun and you have your answer. Don't try to find a lightweight varmint round that will do for Deer as well, there may well be one or two out there that maybe will suffice, but for peace of mind get a hunting bullet.

You owe it to the deer, to kill it as cleanly as quickly as possible, so use the right round. As Steve has highlighted, the wrong bullet is used on more occasions than anyone hears about, quite often through just not knowing. Now this may just help stop someone doing it.

John
 
jonathon

i have found the sierra 85gr HPBT to be great on deer and fox also the 90gr speer hotcore. no fox shot with either has got up yet. if out only after fox i use 75gr Vmax devistating on them.

the biggest deer i have shot so far is a 200lbs fallow buck that was shot with a 90gr bullet , the deer was shot heart lung it did run but not far

i have found there is not much diffrence in the point of aim with the three bullets @ 100,200 and 300m .......neil
 
Roe Bullet

Very interesting hearing about all you southerners shooting roe with 90gn bullets @ 40m and moaning they run on a bit., Neck the feckers at that range or chap them behind the ear. 22lr would do at that range if it were legal.
:p

seriously though

I use 55gn speer softies for roe out of 223 and 22-250. 150gn softies in the 308 for the big boys.

22-250 blows them off their feet in the heart lung area, and can take roe at ranges that mean you can here the bullet strike :evil: where as the 308 passes right through

Think that the deer reaction to the shot is 50% adrenaline and of course the rest placement etc., if they dont know you are there they drop, but if the suss you they will be offski.
just for the record i have had roe drop more with 223 than 308 as more energy stays in the animal instead of passing through it. IMHO
 
speer 55g soft point

http://www.speer-bullets.com/ballistics/bullets.aspx

this above link goes to the speer bullets page. the 55gr spitzer is designed as a varmint bullet. if you wish to use a .22 cf rifle for deer maybe a 60gr partition might be a more suitable bullet? Varminting bullets have thinner jackets and are designed for very fast expansion. the hunting / big game bullets have thicker, often tapered, jackets to provide better controlled expansion on larger animals. If th bullet passes all the way through, that is not a bad thing. the wound channel that is created by a mushroomed soft point bullet is very wide and causes a huge amount of shock to the animal. a small and fragmented bullet simply doesn't do that.

I do, however accept we are all slaves to our experiences.

swampy
 
Steve,

help me out here please, I took the link to the Speer page, I like to wander around these places how sad is that? Anyway I digress, the upshot is I could only find one 55 grain 22 bullet on there listed for varmint use, and that was the TNT hollow point high velocity. Could you reset my Sat Nav and point me in the right direction please?

Thanks

John
 
I'm much obliged to my learned colleague, I must stop wandering off on various tangents :D

John
 
Roe Bullets

Swampy,

the yanks consider the 22CF a varmint rifle and lable ammunition as such. To them its a garden gun. I take all your point on bullet construction and agree with stated facts.

I do not want to get into a ballistic argument with you, but a 60 grain bullet in either my 223 or 22-250 is not as accurate (the 22250 has twist rate of 1-14 and was designed for the 55gn pill max)

accuracy leads to confidence which leads to shot placement and humane despatch.

I myself shoot roe within the law, the Deer Act 1996 and all of is amendments.

No Deer Act mentions "varmint" bullets. The last time I had to pass a DMQ (and i have both) the legislation was cristal clear for Roe in Scotland :
Minimum 50 grains bullet, with velocity of 2450 ft/sec and 1000lbs of energy at the muzzle.

I do nothing illegal.
 
Roe Bullets

Swampy,

the yanks consider the 22CF a varmint rifle and lable ammunition as such. To them its a garden gun. I take all your point on bullet construction and agree with stated facts.

I do not want to get into a ballistic argument with you, but a 60 grain bullet in either my 223 or 22-250 is not as accurate (the 22250 has twist rate of 1-14 and was designed for the 55gn pill max)

accuracy leads to confidence which leads to shot placement and humane despatch.

I myself shoot roe within the law, the Deer Act 1996 and all of is amendments.

No Deer Act mentions "varmint" bullets. The last time I had to pass a DMQ (and i have both) the legislation was cristal clear for Roe in Scotland :
Minimum 50 grains bullet, with velocity of 2450 ft/sec and 1000lbs of energy at the muzzle. Rifle bullets must be of the expanding type.

I do nothing illegal.
 
varminting bullets.

308boy.
I believed that the americans call shooting small ground game, often at longer ranges with a rifle as varminting. Varminting loads are available for many calibres all the way up in size. varminting bullets are loaded into .308's and .30-06's they look to try to achieve flat trjectory and explosive expansion. The bullets are designed to do that and are far more frangible than a "hunting" bullet. The makers specify the construction in thier data and thier sites.
I fully accept the twist rate issue with the rifles. I know a chap who had 2 x .223's one which he used one for pest shooting with light bullets but bought a further one with a faster twist rate for heavier bullets for deer use.
The 60 gr partition is a .223 bullet designed for taking larger game and is a hunting bullet.
the point is more apparent when you look at 243 bullets they are available from 58 gr to 105s probably more. some are designed for the america sport of varminting, some for what the americans would term as hunting - we must choose what is appropriate.

I never said that using this is illegal. I don't believe it is using the best tools for the job. Lots of guys without our level of experience use this forum and we all need to show best practise.

swampy steve
 
Illegal

Swampy,

I know you had not said what i loaded was illegal, I was just making sure the implication was not there.
Like I said I have no problems with facts, but if you trawl the Internet and look at hornady, nosler sierra etc, you will see that 99% of the 55 grain .224 claibre bullets are listed as "varmint". The Federal powershok uses a speer softpoint bullet head and is used for Roe. The box does have a wee picture of a "varmint on it though., i have just checked :D

Lets leave this as i fully understand your point, but if you are shooting Roe up in Scotland legally with 50 grain .22 centre fire upwards to the 55gn bullets the chances are you are doing it with a so called varmint round, even if you are buying it by the box of the shelf, it is as you state only when you get to 60gn that the bullet types change.
 
bullets for roe

i over the years 25+ have used 222 22 250 for roe in scotland i used to use NOSLER 50 grain heads in 222 , 60 grain in 22 250 and mine did stablelise them they were solid base trophy grade heads . I have over the years with my son shot well over 1000 roe with these using VIT powder i have just loaded my last stock of these and dont know what heads to use in the future . I have used winchester norma with good results in years gone by but now you can use 22cf for munties cwd these wont last long , i have now loaded up some hornady SP to try on foxes and munties but would be advised by others on this sight on what they are using now 308 boy has obviously done his home work on this one and i would welcome his knowledge on this . I have now sold my 22 250 and replaced it with another 243 but would never sell my 222 this has been rebarreled and shoot one hole groups all day best thing since sliced bread . Please dont jump on the band wagon condeming the use of these small calibers they do work very well indeed providing you dont take stupid shots , chances that are really not on think of the welfare of the deer they are not vermin and should not be shot at with varmin bullets as the chance of wounded beast is not worth it ,there will always be cowboys out there in the area i live in people are shooting deer with 17 hmr 22 rf anything you can imagine at night and bragging about it but you never get to here the horror stories people dont bragg about them MUDDY
 
22-250

Muddy,

i am no expert on all things to do with bullets. i used to just buy a box and get busy. I only got reloading when my 22-250 did not like what i was feeding it.

The 22-250 was by definition a "varmint" round, but very accurate inthe right hands. I eventually loaded nosler 55GN BTs for foxy etc and cold put 5 rounds in 10p poece at 120m. Now, deer as you say are not vermin and should be shot humanely, bullet designed for that purpose is best.

Issues only start when you cannot get bullets to fly accurately. Choice is yours accuracy over what the box says. A neck shot roe will never know that your using a varmint round but a heart shot one might.

There are afew new partion bullets out there that might be worth trying.

Speer Trophy Bonded Bear Claw SP in 50 grains would be tops in the 222 IMHO,
 
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