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Thread: Police muzzle energy specs

  1. #1

    Police muzzle energy specs

    Does anyone know what source do the police use when comparing different cartridges in terms of muzzle energy? Are they SAAMI or CIP based? Is there a standard police reference table, or do they just google it?

    For example, you could ask for a round that is loaded to low pressure under SAAMI specs and they'd be thinking one ME, but then handload it hot and it's now a different round...
    "A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition." -- Rudyard Kipling

  2. #2
    Home Office 2002 firearms guidance document

    Document Summary

    Chapter 13 page 77

    Most firearms bods don't know very much about homeloading and they would always stick to the guidance because the guidance says so....
    Last edited by Paul at Fechan; 07-11-2010 at 15:03.

  3. #3
    More often than any other...... Cartridges of the world, by Frank C Barnes. ISBN -13:978-0-89689-297-2
    (The Unspeakable In Pursuit Of The Uneatable.) " If I can help, I will help!." Former S.A.C.S. member!

  4. #4
    Thanks guys, that's a US book it seems so SAAMI specs? Hope so. Round I'm thinking of is 8x57JS, where do you reckon they'll rank it? remington and winchester ammo looks like a weak 308, but load it hot and it's a real animal... So what I'm thinking is can I pitch it as a suitable step up from 243 for mainly red deer - the 243 will stay for fox, roe, mintjac etc.. But this is considering I've had my 243 (first centrefire) for 10 months ish. What are my chances in Norfolk?
    Last edited by harrygrey382; 07-11-2010 at 15:41.
    "A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition." -- Rudyard Kipling

  5. #5
    Harry the problem you will most likely find is that 8mm sounds BIG to the Police. As you know I have a P-H 1200 Super in 7.92mm (8x57) why P-H marked it 7.92mm? the rumour is it was for a special export order. However when I broached the subject of stalking with it................................. lots of sucking of teeth and worried looks. It's a bit big in fact it's only 0.015" bigger but you are dealing with the Police and brains are not their strong point. We won't mention common sense .

    Cannot say what Norfolk is like perhaps they are more enlightened that Lincolnshire but you will forgive me if I don't hold my breathe on that one.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Brithunter View Post
    Harry the problem you will most likely find is that 8mm sounds BIG to the Police. As you know I have a P-H 1200 Super in 7.92mm (8x57) why P-H marked it 7.92mm? the rumour is it was for a special export order. However when I broached the subject of stalking with it................................. lots of sucking of teeth and worried looks. It's a bit big in fact it's only 0.015" bigger but you are dealing with the Police and brains are not their strong point. We won't mention common sense .

    Cannot say what Norfolk is like perhaps they are more enlightened that Lincolnshire but you will forgive me if I don't hold my breathe on that one.
    Yeah I thought I might say it's 7.92, but they'd cotton on pretty quick it's called 8mm... I'm thinking they're not going to like it, as you said it fires a fatter bullet and they don't like them. I'm just hoping I can persuade them that it's in the same league as 308, and loaded to US specs has less power than a 270. In fact if they're kept away from high(er) pressure handload figures it looks pretty tame and if they just think in terms of muzzle energy I may have a chance!

    But I'm setting myself up for disappointment. If not I'll angle for 270 - not exactly a second rate calibre! It's more I'm after a certain Husqvarna
    "A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition." -- Rudyard Kipling

  7. #7
    Beware of telling Mr Plod a cartridge spec that isn't exactly what will be engraved on the rifle you choose and be written on your certificate when granted - any difference will, sure as eggs is eggs confuse him and the only person to suffer would be you.
    Best discuss this face to face with your visiting officer and sort it out with him. If he agrees with you, you'll get what you want. If you can't persuade him then and only then get BASC to help you. (Assuming you're a member).

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Yorric View Post
    Beware of telling Mr Plod a cartridge spec that isn't exactly what will be engraved on the rifle you choose and be written on your certificate when granted - any difference will, sure as eggs is eggs confuse him and the only person to suffer would be you.
    Best discuss this face to face with your visiting officer and sort it out with him. If he agrees with you, you'll get what you want. If you can't persuade him then and only then get BASC to help you. (Assuming you're a member).
    Yeah good point. I I'll be clear to him 7.92 and 8mm are the same and will check on the said rifle. Yep I'm a member of BASC and they'll be last resort... Would like to stay on good terms with old FEO mate
    "A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition." -- Rudyard Kipling

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrygrey382 View Post
    Does anyone know what source do the police use when comparing different cartridges in terms of muzzle energy? Are they SAAMI or CIP based? Is there a standard police reference table, or do they just google it?

    For example, you could ask for a round that is loaded to low pressure under SAAMI specs and they'd be thinking one ME, but then handload it hot and it's now a different round...
    The same might be said of .30-06, which performs very nearly identically. Of course, possibly you arrived at your choice 8x57JS over 9.3x62...

  10. #10
    Again Lincs out it down as 8mm even though Parker-Hale on this rifle stamped 7.92mm. I have also brought inported 30-06 as 7.62mm when Surrey left off the 30-06. The box had 7.62x62 printed on it . So if they want to I'll use their ignorance against them.

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