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  1. #1


    I have posted this on another forum, but felt compelled to extend the question to more shooters

    How many think that there should be National Firearms Bureau that deal with the whole thing and that it should be taken out of the Chief Constable's hands altogether?
    Thereby removing the responsibility of 100,000 firearms in my area from his daily work load, and drawing a clear and defined line under licensing conditions, and the massive injustice that surrounds them.

    By doing this we would have the same law for one as we do for another, like we "normally " do when we drive a car.

    I mean would you like it if you were driving down the road in a van, only to be stopped at the county border and told that your license does not allow you to drive a van in that county?, and if you proceed you will be arrested, only to have a guy from that county with the same license as you get waved on past?

    What do you think of a National FireArms Bureau ? and could/ or would it bring a greater equality to the whole thing, and would it be better faster, and more focussed?, and allow the police departments to get on with what they should be doing... catching REAL Criminals?


  2. #2


    yes i agree, it would allow a better base of skill and knowledge to develope and better standardisation of procedures.

    but at the end of the form someone has to take responsibility and sign as to whether a person is fit to possess a firearm or not. That discretionary element can't be removed and you would need staff prepared to stick thier necks on the line by doing this. this does not have to be a police officer, but it does need to be someone similarly accountble.


  3. #3
    i am not sure i am thinking on the same lines but here goes
    yes i believe a national firearms bureau would be good in theory , but how or who would regulate it
    all the ex FLO's that know the people and area perhaps or would they hav to retrain a whole load of new officers that actualy had more experience of firearms and shooting than many of the present day FLO's because some one will still hav to come out for a house inspection
    would this also mean , a set training course in all disciplines from range work , lamping , DSC even vermin control, with a stringent exam at the end of it , that you would need to pass
    this way anyone getting a firearms will atleast hav some knowledge of everthing they may need to know about whilst out using a firearms
    thus taking the most of the responsibility off the person signing the ticket , just like it does for an MOT certificate
    good thing , bad thing don't know
    but a set training course to cover everthing has to be a good thing

  4. #4
    Good responses so far, and great to see a response from Steve, that has to be a very valid opinion

    Im not too worried about the accountability side of things as we are all accountable for our jobs, and it's been keeping FLO's,Ministers, Driving examiners, Chief Constables,Doctors, in business for years, I'm not suggesting the level of accountability is any different than it currently is.

    So are we suggesting that we bring in a vermin training course as well as DSC1? or even a general hunters license? be careful with the paperwork, its starting to get expensive and drawn out

  5. #5

    training and accountability

    no the multi discipline training is for the enquiry officer.

    As for the accountability and responsibility factor this is important. Someone has to sign the forms and say the applicant is ok. in 90% of cases it is quite simple. but 10% is quite a large amount. The person signing that form needs to know what is at risk to others safety and thier own liability. Remember what happens when it gets done wrong.... Dunblane.

    Finding people of the right quality to do the job would not be a cheap process, but it is of course, doable.

    I agree it is a great idea, i will do the job!


  6. #6

    National Firearms Bureau

    Swampy, As I see things, we already have a law that is equal for everyone. The problem is that each Chief Constable is given free rein to interpret that law.
    There is no-one above them governing what they say and it is only a brave sole that puts his head over the parapet that brings them back into line. Change the chief and it starts over again.
    Griff, perhaps the BASC would like to tackle that and simplifying the application form (Thames Valley have more photographs of me than my family album).
    The post office used to issue gun licences years ago and as they are civil servants perhaps they could take the job on.
    I would be only too happy to see more policemen on the beat but I mean on the beat, not sitting in vans holding hair driers to collect more revenue.
    I agree that what is needed is a simplified process and a National standard.
    Appologies for the rant.

  7. #7
    In my opinion, it's when the chief constable gets involved is where the inequality starts,

    That was the main focus of the question, and why it should be taken out of his hands altogether and handed over to a specialist dept that operates on a national basis, with the same rules applying to all.

    His inability to make the same judgements as peers is where the system breaks down into a farce.

  8. #8


    Judgements is right, someone has to make them. whoever makes them there will be differences between the individuals making them. Also very few cases are exactly the same, that is raraely reported though. - but with a national establishment it will be better because the training will be produced centrally.

    "I would be only too happy to see more policemen on the beat but I mean on the beat, not sitting in vans holding hair driers to collect more revenue. "

    What a fantastically simplistic viewpoint. Whether we like it or not excess speed is a major contributory factor in death at RTAs. Deliver a few death messages and then it will become clear.

    A fatal road traffic accident costs 1m to investigate (i think that is the figure) so if the chief constable can prevent 2 or 3 a year he can save a load of money from his devolved and decreasing budget. That can be used to keep operational officer levels up.

    We would be very mistaken to think that firearms licensing is financially viaible as a standalone.

    We would also be very mistaken to think that a bobby on the beat achieves much in the way of actual crime reduction. A bobby on the beat does, however, provide a feeling that that is the case. A good nieghbourhood officer now spends a very small part of thier time on patrol, that time must be focussed well. The officer can achieve real crime reductions from thier office. you have to address the underlying issues that cause the crime.


  9. #9
    i think the current system is not that bad and a national one will be more complicated and will be less approachable than now, your local force has better local knowledge of you and the area.

    i agree with swampy on some points that it would not be a viable fiancial option on it own. my own firearms dept (south wales police) has only civilian staff and FEO'S so no loss of police officers.

    i disagree with you swampy that "We would also be very mistaken to think that a bobby on the beat achieves much in the way of actual crime reduction"

    a bobby on the beat doing his/her job will reduce crime in that area but there is no way of producing stats for this and it can not be recorded for goverment figures ....neil

  10. #10

    National Firearms Bureau

    Steady on Swampy, this was not a simplistic view.
    Only 5% of road deaths are caused by speeding motorists. Which means that 95% are not.
    I was driving when the 70mph limit came in and the majority of cars on the roads then had transverse springs and cable brakes. Yep, there are a lot more vehicles on the roads and they are a lot faster but overall road deaths have come down a lot over the years.
    In those days if someone reported a burglary then the police would be there and pretty quick. Mainly because there was one in almost every village, let alone towns and cities.
    In my youth Iwoulld have loved to have been a policeman but they didn't want anyone with ducks disease.
    I appologise if I upset you and going off the thread.

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