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Thread: Flyers

  1. #1

    Flyers

    OK I've been developing (or trying to) a load on and off for my 243 BRNO 98 sporter for a few months now (from new). I've finally accepted I think there's something wrong. I can get it to group pretty well - like touching or half inch groups, but then it goes and throws a flyer. Not just one, and it's not just me. It's so regular I can't accept it's purely my error, and certainly not 2.5" every time.

    This is certain to happen at least 1 in 3 times, no matter how many shots in the gorup. And the flyers always end up in the same spot 2.5" to the left - they themselves print a pretty good group! Basically I can't get a consistent group below 2"

    What I've tried:
    Powder charge - varying weights of N160 from 40 - 45.9 in .5gr increments
    Varying seating depth - from 0.04" to 0.01" off the lands
    Rests - proper sand bag rests front and rear. Also bipod
    Chrono - crimped loads vary by about 20fps at 3000
    Dry firing - when I do this the cross hairs basically don't move when I pull the tigger, all seems good

    Bullet is 80gr remingington soft point
    Barrel is a BRNO barrel, 22" with 1:10 twist
    Moderator is P8 and I frequently check it for obstructions
    I clean the barrel with Wipeout
    Stock is walnut, free floated (double checked)
    Scope is Vari-X II 4-12x40
    Mounts are Millet Redfield style, and tight

    Now I know I should try more bullets, and more powder. Well I guess that's the next step. But it seemed I could never get much of a difference when I varied the charge weight or seating depth, and surely I should be able to get a better group?

    Should I be thinking about glass bedding it? Can a bad bullet match give symptoms this bad? I've only heard posotive things about N160 and how it increases everyone's accuracy so I'm thinking it's unlikely to be this too, but?

    One more thing, I tried H1000 initially because Lee had some lying around he didn't want, and I decided on 46gr of it and hunted with it for a while. One time a shot a 1/2" group, but all other times it grouped 1.5" on a good day with the same old flyers. I could try this again I guess, but it's a badly matched powder I think for a slow twist 243. I'm sure I couldn't get a deer legal load out of it.

    Can anyone help?
    "A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition." -- Rudyard Kipling

  2. #2
    I would try some boat tailed ammo. Nosler BT is inherently accurate time and time again. that is why it is expensive.
    rest looks good to me.

  3. #3
    Harry

    Reloading is an art and a science - very frustrating sometimes. Just when you think you understand what you are doing, someone comes along and says what about this. I haven't done a lot of load development, but I have attempted and given up on 3 different bullets for my 243. Reading your comprehensive list some thoughts jump out.

    As you suggest, try different bullets.
    Also try looking at your brass prep approach. I spend about 85% of my reloading time on brass prep.
    I frequently see recommendations to try another primer. This isn't a road I have explored myself, but I believe it is a valid option.
    I was out with a guy this morning and he was using Sako 90gr and that reminded me of the days before I reloaded and just bought that same round and shot it. Is there a factory load that your rifle shoots well?

    Good luck. JCS

  4. #4
    OK here's the embarrasing bit... I haven't tried factory ammo in it! But as the chrono data is so close, would it really help. Also, would the components - primers, bullets etc. really bring the groups in from 2"? I get the impression you can fine tune to say shrink groups from 1" to .5", but would they really be the cause of shotgun size groups?

    Having said that I guess it's maybe premature to start panicking and thinking about bedding before at least trying a different bullet. But maybe I'll try without the mod, and what about some forend pressure?

    Can you get small packs of Nosalr BT stuff? Budget's kind of tight... How about sierra stuff?
    "A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition." -- Rudyard Kipling

  5. #5
    The first thing i would do is try a couple of groups without crimping the bullets.

    Next to try would be a different bullet.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by weejohn View Post
    The first thing i would do is try a couple of groups without crimping the bullets.

    Next to try would be a different bullet.
    Done the first. Maybe will try 87gr Hornady softpoints next then...
    "A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition." -- Rudyard Kipling

  7. #7
    I would ignore the chrono data at the moment, some of the most accurate bench rest
    loads have terrible ES over the chrono.

    What brass and primer do you use?

  8. #8
    Using federal brass. But also tried groups with Norma and Sako (not together obviously). Remington 9 1/2
    "A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition." -- Rudyard Kipling

  9. #9
    This may sound silly but i had this problem many years ago and the scope was faulty(jumping recticle) nothing to do with the ammo.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by deerhungry View Post
    This may sound silly but i had this problem many years ago and the scope was faulty(jumping recticle) nothing to do with the ammo.
    yeah I'm aware that's one variable, but I have no way of checking it other than sending it off to leupold which will be several weeks I'd guess. I don't know anyone I can borrow off either
    "A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition." -- Rudyard Kipling

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