Knife sharpening help please

tuck1

Well-Known Member
I've just bought one of the Gatco kits and am having a knife sharpening session. I have a couple of frosts knives kicking around, both very dull, so I've been having a bit of a go at them. They are much better now, but not up to shaving hair off my arm, which is the benchmark I have always used since I was showed by a butcher a few years ago. They both have the carbon steel blade, which should sharpen up great. I've even stropped them.

So, any suggestions as to the angle I should be using, or what I'm doing wrong? Am I expecting too much, and is the hair shaving test a realistic one for cutting meat,and butchery tasks (rabbits etc), or is there another reliable way to test if my knives are really sharp?

All help and suggestions gratefully received.

Thanks

Tuck
 
A knife edge which will cut hair or shave hair needs an angle of about 14 degrees. The problem is that this is far to delicate an edge for stalking purposes. I usually go for an edge which is between 20 and 25 degrees. It wont shave hair but it is sharp and robust enough for stalking purposes.
 
I use a Lansky system on my Frost's knives and I can certainly get them sharp enough to shave the hairs off my arm.

I note the comment above though about that being too delicate an edge. I have noticed that the blades don't stay that sharp for very long.
 
I use a fine angle edge folder to cut the outer skin as it gets less abuse, then I switch to a 25 degree frosts to go through ribs etc and a saw blade on the folder does the hip joint.
Martin
 
I have one of these kits and go for 25 evry time. I sharpen every other trip and all is well. I have been asked to sharpen kitchen knives with it and it only sharpens good quality knives. Cheap ones are not worth the effort!
 
Thank you, I have used youtube but there's so much conflicting advice there it's hard to know whats what.
I'll persevere with it, and try the 22 degree setting. What about stropping, does anyone bother much, or is is irrelevant for this type of work?
 
You must strop , This not only gets rid of the burrs but also polishes the edge to a razor sharpness.
Can you not find a carpenter/joiner to show you how to use traditional oil/waterstones .
I sharpen tools day in day out ,and have never found the need for gadgets .
 
Also, is it safe to assume that you ignore the large bevel on the blade, and are actually sharpening a smaller secondary bevel at a steeper angle?
 
Sorry Brough, cross posted there. I have been shown, more than once, however I am just no good at it ! Maybe something to do with being ambidextrous (I'm rubbish with both hands!!) I can get somewhere with the oilstone, but get the feeling that I am changing the angle slightly at times and therefore ruining the edge again. I have recently started stropping the blades and it does seem to make a difference.

Maybe I'll just stick with one old knife and practice until I either get the technique, or create a toothpick!

Incidentally, I've always been envious of those who can sharpen knives beautifully freehand, or use any hand tools well for that matter. I was just born a clumsy oaf!
 
Hey Tuck it does take a while to master , but like everything, if you do it enough it becomes second nature.
Yes you are correct I do put a 2nd bevel on the edge this is only a micro bevel ,and it is very sharp , this is the edge that you strop and polish. I couldn't tell you the exact angle that I sharpen at but I am able by hand to put a very fine edge on a blade for fine work in the workshop but this wouldn't last very long in the field , In the field I use a ceramic rod just to tickle the edge on a dulled blade.
 
I have spent all my life connected with the joinery trade and am 4th greneration in it.20 degress of angle is the one to go for but a limp wrist rounding is the most common problem when sharpening any blade.
 
Limp wrist!

How very dare you! Limp wristed? Me sir?
I understand what you are saying, I'm sure consistent angles are the key, and I won't be abandoning the stones yet, I just want to get some good repeatable result for now so I know what to strive for. The info is appreciated, thank you.

Some day I hope to have a nice knife, and before that time comes I want to have learnt how to keep it just right.
 
Hay i have lost every expensive knive i have ever owned I now buy the £10 variety and carry a dimond stone and sharpen my knife after each Graloch.strange but my £9 knife I have had for past 5 years is nearly worn out I do not seem to be able to loose it,its replacement is still under the seat of the van
 
Tuck..I started making my own kinives around a year ago and all I can say is practice. A knife can shave hair virtually any angle,I grind blades from 5 degrees to around 25 degrees and can shave with them all as you would a cut throat....its even possible to sharpen a good axe to shave hair! The advantage of the higher degrees , say around the 20 degress upwards mark is the will be more robust and more of a general purpose knife...such as the type Ray mears uses which is a scandi grind of around 25 degrees if my memory serves me right. It also depends on what grind was on your knife in the first place...it may be a hollow grind which get harder to sharpen as the years go by ,or it may be a grind with a micro grind on it etc ect....
Have you tried to look at the manufactures website to find the grind angle and/or done the same to find the suggested angles for the sharpener you have?? Also when you get to the latter stages of sharpening you only need a very light pressure. Regarding stropping it is important you dont roll the knife as you strop, keep it flat and strop gently backwards towards the spine of the knife....I use Autosol and a piece of leather when I do this, you can use brasso etc too. Also do you want the knife for gralloching or butchering as you really need two knives for the two jobs. I use use a knife I made with a 18 degree grind for gralloching and use a butchers boning knife for butchering as its more flexible. Also dont use a steel on your gralloching knife...its a such way to mess up the grind angles...steels are great for boning knives when you want a quick sharpen though, but once again when used correctly. Find out what the original grind of the knife you have was and grind to that angle.

is this like the kit you have ?? http://www.gatcosharpeners.com/product/sharp_systems/edgemate_pro_sys.mgi if it is you should be able to get a superb edge with practice..but you need to get the stones to the agle of the blade from the begining, if not you will be grinding a new angle and lose the original angle...might help if you draw anlong both sides of the cutting edge with a marker pen...that way you will see exactly where the stones are removing steel and be able to alter your angles to suit.

Pete
 
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Hi Tuck,

All of my knives will cut hair after a sharpening session.

If you want to discuss methods in depth, come and see me again and we will stiffen your wrist !!


Brianm
 
A knife edge which will cut hair or shave hair needs an angle of about 14 degrees. The problem is that this is far to delicate an edge for stalking purposes. I usually go for an edge which is between 20 and 25 degrees. It wont shave hair but it is sharp and robust enough for stalking purposes.

Exactly. Angle edge is a compromise between durability and keeness.~Muir
 
I sharpen at 22degrees, 17 leaves a razor sharp edge but does go off after a small amount of use.
I was told, by a very knowledgeable knife sharpener, that a lot depends on the material you're sharpening. If its a stainless blade (such as a mora) then use some wet and dry paper (fine grit) stuck to a piece of wood to hone the edge then leather strop to finish, this leaves a very sharp edge.
 
Thats very true Limulus. Different steels can be miles apart in there durablilty...as a rough guide rockwell 58 or 59 is a good durable steel hardness if your getting a knife...lower it doesnt hold an edge as well, harder its a bitch to sharpen. The Tip you refer to with the wet and dry is called the Scary Sharp System...look it up on the net...it will do as it says and get a good blade scary sharp!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Thank you gentlemen, all of you for your replies. It's when I read an informative thread like this that I realise what a tremendous place this is for me to come and learn. I am very grateful.

I think, as you suggested Pete, that one of the first problems I had in eagerness to use the kit was to fail to examine the edge properly, and just attempt to grind to the angle that I wanted. I have got the system with only 3 hones. I have now got hold of a magnifying glass, and a marker so I can see what I'm doing, one of the initial problems I had with the Mora was that I was trying to sharpen to the large visible bevel, and hadn't realised that it had a micro bevel. It would have taken me an awful long time to get that one sharp!
I have also started using an old belt loaded with T Cut which seems to be making a lot of difference, I have noted the point about not rolling over the edge, thank you. Am I right in thinking that the stropping angle should be the same as the bevel angle, and no more?

The knives are just currently used for butchering rabbits and small game, not gralloching or big butchery tasks (yet) as personal circumstances don't really allow me to stalk. However, I will be doing in the not too distant future so I'm just spending time here learning and building up a few of the required skills.

With regard to testing for sharpness, is there a reliable way to judge? I appreciate that cutting skin and flesh would be ideal, but isn't always available. Is the hair shaving test reliable, or cutting paper, or could someone recommend me another way to check?

Many thanks


Brian - I will most certainly take you up on that offer when shifts allow, that would be helpful, thank you. I will commence wrist exercises immediately!

Tuck
 
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