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Thread: League Against Cruel Sports and Culling Deer

  1. #1

    League Against Cruel Sports and Culling Deer

    Taken from http://www.league.org.uk/blogs_entry.aspx?id=257

    You can post a comment on there if you so wish...

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    Does the League cull deer?
    Written by Steve on 17 November, 2010 : 10:08


    There's some misunderstanding floating around, especially on Facebook, as to the League's position on culling deer and whether or not we do it on our own sanctuaries in the south west.

    Let us be clear: We do not cull deer on our sanctuaries.

    We don't support the notion of 'population management', such as that espoused by those who thought the shooting of the Exmoor Emperor was a good thing. We believe that populations manage themselves. We don't feed deer on our land, partly to avoid transmission of tuberculosis, but partly also because we like to leave nature to take its course. The only 'population management' on our land is by Mother Nature.

    In circumstances where a sick or injured animal is found on our land, and it cannot be rehabilitated, we will take action to euthanase the animal as quickly and humanely as possible. This can include dispatching a deer with an appropriate shotgun, for which our sanctuaries staff are fully trained and licensed.

    Animal welfare is at the heart of what we do, and we will continue to do all we can to prevent animal suffering, whether it's a bull in a bullfight, a hunted fox, a coursed hare, a shot pheasant, or a deer on our land. Does the League cull deer?

  2. #2
    Apologies for replying to my own thread, but I then noticed their next blog entry.

    Interesting move, as despite their increasingly vociferous opposition to driven game shooting, I don't ever recall seeing the league attack stalking before.

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    Another way
    Written by Matt on 17 November, 2010 : 13:50


    Sometimes it is interesting to revisit a story in the aftermath of publication to gauge the level of traction upon the public conscience. No better recent example that I can think of involves the shock and dismay felt by so many people at the news that the stag, known as Emperor, had been shot by a trophy hunter in the South West of England.

    Predictably the bloodsports lobby went into overdrive to justify what it does best: kill. In a recent interview in the Independent newspaper Countryside Alliance Chief Executive, Alice Barnard - the latest voice of unreason to hold office in Kennington - bemoaned the publicís lack of understanding of Ďcountry ways':

    "There has been an overblown reaction to the shooting of a single animal when thousands are culled every year as part of deer herd management. It might be the first time people have heard that deer are shot... Once it is taken in context they do understand. I think it is about making those connections, which are sometimes lost. People look at him and think one thing in the day and then are quite happy to sit down and eat venison at night."

    Sorry Alice but I really donít think that people do understand or take to being patronised in this way! A recent League blog demonstrates quite clearly that there is another way and news reaches us that a petition is gathering momentum calling for greater protection for deer. Why not take a look if you have a spare minute?

  3. #3

  4. #4
    How is it that this is allowed to continue, it comes to something if things are so bad that a self confessed 'anti' comes out and calls for a cull plan. The worst thing is we get all the s**t for being cruel?????

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_Ov View Post
    In circumstances where a sick or injured animal is found on our land, and it cannot be rehabilitated, we will take action to euthanase the animal as quickly and humanely as possible. This can include dispatching a deer with an appropriate shotgun, for which our sanctuaries staff are fully trained and licensed.
    Removing beasts from a herd based on specific criteria, be it for population management or due to disease/injury, is the definition of culling. Furthermore, if there is such concern for quickly and humanely euthanizing animals, it seems that they might be better off using an appropriate deer calibre rifle as opposed to the "appropriate shotgun" they mention.

    In my (very) humble opinion, it seems to me that the League has a strong set of theoretical ideals, but a poor knowledge base in which to practically and feasibly apply them. Just my 2p.

  6. #6
    I think it might be best if we leave the thoughts, comments and propaganda of the green nutters on their own green nutter web sites rather than spreading it around a stalking site as well. Their system of beliefs is based on a pseudo-religious unscientific fantasy land of doom, destruction and disaster while we get out and enjoy the countryside and all it has to offer - we have nothing in common with these people and nor would we want to have. I appreciate that it is useful for us to keep up to date with what their latest fantasy beliefs are when they are directly attacking us but my personal position would be that we should leave that on their sites for them to wring their hands over while sitting in their mud huts knitting with yogurt. To be honest it comes as a shock to me that they are allowed to use electricity to power computers as I thought that caused babies to die on Christmas day, or the biggest living wild animal in the UK to fall over dead or whatever their latest punishment for breaking the green code is.

    No publicity is bad publicity remember.

  7. #7
    Interesting...

    Thoughts in no particular order:

    My intention in posting was to raise awareness that the LACS position had changed somewhat and that they appear to be moving towards making stalking more of a target (see the latest blog from their Chief Exec as well). I think it's good for everyone in the fieldsports community to have an awareness of these things so that they can react in whatever ways thet see as being appropriate. I also thought that a few comments on their blog might redress the balance a bit - sadly they don't seem to be accepting pro fieldsports comments anymore (they did in the past). At least, they haven't posted the link to the youtube clip of the starving deer on their Baronsdown sanctuary which I submitted as a comment...

    As someone who has hunted with hounds for years and has been heavily involved in that debate, I suppose it just worries me that LACS etc will use the media furore over the Emperor to launch an attack on stalking. You can see from the responses on most websites carrying stories about the Exmoor stuff that the vast majority of the public don't 'get' stalking. Place this against the background of the Cumbria shootings and the subsequent inquiry and I think I'm right to be concerned.

    I was also interested in any comments from more knowledgeable deer managers about any effects that their 'policy' might have on the welfare of individual animals and the wider deer herd.

    I'm sure seeing the text reproduced here isn't to everyone's taste (and that lots of folk just aren't interested!) but 'know thine enemy' and all that....

    Tom

    PS - Caorach. I count myself as a Green myself mate - I do my recycling like a good little greenie and even read The Guardian. I always think my interest and involvement in the countryside compliments wider environmental awareness. But thats a different thread...

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_Ov View Post
    I was also interested in any comments from more knowledgeable deer managers about any effects that their 'policy' might have on the welfare of individual animals and the wider deer herd.
    For a number of years I stalked and controlled deer numbers on an estate that was adjacent to their main Westcounty 'sanctuary' at Baronsdown. From a vantage point we could look into the few open fields on their 200 acre holding, and on a good day it was not unusual to count 300+ red deer.

    The effects of attracting such abnormally high numbers of wild deer onto land that quite clearly cannot support them, both in terms of the welfare of the animals and the impact on surrounding farms, have been noted before - although there cannot be any empirical reporting without the involvement and consent of you-know-who, and they are hardly likely to be forthcoming as the probable outcome would be negative for them.

    Here's a flavour of what it's been about locally:

    http://www.exmoor.org.uk/beardsall.htm

    The area surrounding Baronsdown is the only place where I have personally taken red deer which have been in less than the perfect condition I see elsewhere in the Exe Valley - liver fluke, lungworm, very heavy parasite burdens, etc. and generally poor condition.

    BTW. Although the LACS might like to portray animal welfare as being at the heart of what they do, my take on them is that they are far more driven by their ideology of being anti-hunting and anti all the other 'cruel sports' that have since been tacked on as campaigns, rather than addressing issues such as the condition of the deer on and around Baronsdown. IMO they are very wary of allowing any independent body, (BDS for instance or one of the University based research units), from carrying out a professional deer management assessment of the local situation, because it would prove once and for all that they have been falsely advocating and promoting 'hands-off' self-management of deer populations to their supporters for years.
    Last edited by Orion; 19-11-2010 at 18:42.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_Ov View Post
    Interesting...

    Thoughts in no particular order:

    My intention in posting was to raise awareness that the LACS position had changed somewhat and that they appear to be moving towards making stalking more of a target (see the latest blog from their Chief Exec as well). I think it's good for everyone in the fieldsports community to have an awareness of these things so that they can react in whatever ways thet see as being appropriate. I also thought that a few comments on their blog might redress the balance a bit - sadly they don't seem to be accepting pro fieldsports comments anymore (they did in the past). At least, they haven't posted the link to the youtube clip of the starving deer on their Baronsdown sanctuary which I submitted as a comment...

    As someone who has hunted with hounds for years and has been heavily involved in that debate, I suppose it just worries me that LACS etc will use the media furore over the Emperor to launch an attack on stalking. You can see from the responses on most websites carrying stories about the Exmoor stuff that the vast majority of the public don't 'get' stalking. Place this against the background of the Cumbria shootings and the subsequent inquiry and I think I'm right to be concerned.

    I was also interested in any comments from more knowledgeable deer managers about any effects that their 'policy' might have on the welfare of individual animals and the wider deer herd.

    I'm sure seeing the text reproduced here isn't to everyone's taste (and that lots of folk just aren't interested!) but 'know thine enemy' and all that....

    Tom

    PS - Caorach. I count myself as a Green myself mate - I do my recycling like a good little greenie and even read The Guardian. I always think my interest and involvement in the countryside compliments wider environmental awareness. But thats a different thread...
    its people like you that have ****ed our country up.Do me a favour and stay on your own website as we don't publish on yours

  10. #10
    SD Regular willie_gunn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mick b View Post
    its people like you that have ****ed our country up.Do me a favour and stay on your own website as we don't publish on yours
    Eh

    In my own local paper (Swindon Advertiser) a letter was published a couple of days ago from someone who professed to have no problem with culling deer where there are too many. They said that they and their relatives come from the Scottish Highlands and a lack of deer management there led to high winter attrition. So far so good.

    However, they then went on to say that they couldn't understand why anyone would have killed the Emperor as (a) at 12 he was in the prime of life, (b) he had many more years ahead of him, and (c) there was no problem in terms of the local deer population. Ignoring the fact that none of these points is true, of course then they talked about the sort of people who would pay £2,000 or more to shoot this magnificent beast.

    If you don't believe that the Emperor is being used as a way of specifically targeting deer management and stalking then you're very sadly mistaken.

    willie_gunn

    PS - I also live on the Berks/Oxon border and recycle, so should I leave the site as well??? If it helps though, I read the Daily Telegraph rather than the Guardian.
    O wad some Power the giftie gie us to see oursels as ithers see us!

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