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Thread: Variation problems

  1. #1

    Variation problems

    Hi guys, the eternal problems of certificates, conditions and variations and Hampshire police seem to be continuing for me

    I have a .243 conditioned for deer, originally issued on the basis of paid stalking without my own land - all good, several paid stalks done, no problems.

    Have also joined my local rifle club, so decided I'd like a rifle for range work, have asked for variation for .303 for target only, and .308 for target and additionally requested occasional deer use (ie. I want a target rifle, but would like the freedom to use it for deer stalking if and when I feel appropriate, for example if I go on holiday to scotland!)

    Have had letter today saying I need to demonstrate specific land authority for the .308 other than that for paid stalking.

    So, I think thats unreasonable, as far as I'm concerned I can demonstrate good reason with the target use, and beyond that any other use that I have permission for should be conditioned as acceptable...

    any comments? I've got a home visit next week, so would be nice to be able to put my point across.

    Edited to add - realistically, should I have to prove anything regards my stalking, I mean, I can demonstrate that I've been, but should I have to produce continuing receipts/proof - reading the HO guidelines its about intent, and, given the fact that the police want to make the rules up as they go along, I'm feeling a little bit of non cooperative "not playing their game, play by the rules" might be in order

    cheers

    cheers

    k
    Last edited by Labrat; 10-12-2010 at 11:35.

  2. #2
    There's only one way to resolve this IMO....

    Don't accept the condition, tell your FEO to put it down as a refusal to issue and his reasons in writing. Remember there is no appeal proceedure against conditions but there is for a refusal.

    It will take longer but you'll get what you ask for in the end.
    "It's halfway down the hill, directly below that tree next to a rock that looks like a bell-end"

    Good deals with ~ deako ~ sakowsm ~ dryan ~ 2734neil ~ mo ~ riggers ~ mmbeatle ~ seanct ~ an du ru fox

  3. #3
    labrat,

    Don't forget that the letter may have been generated by an admin drone as part of a blanket policy - I know they should consider each application on it's own merits as per the HO Guidance, but it might be the case.

    How about writing to them prior to your meeting pointing out that they appear to have made an 'error' by not considering the fact that you already have 'good reason', (which they have already accepted), for your .243 on the basis of booked outings, and throw in the fact that you are somewhat bemused as to why the .308 cannot be approved on the same basis - and of course asking for their reasoning for the inconsistancy in writing as you wish to consult with your shooting organisation.

    Sounds as if it's all at an early stage so possible to turn it around without too much grief, and if the FEO has the letter before the visit, will see you mean business.
    Last edited by Orion; 10-12-2010 at 12:36.

  4. #4
    Their only possible objection, and it's not really a valid one, is that you want two rifles for the same reason. I see it as un-necessarily restrictive, when you already have proven (and approved) "good reason" to hold a deer calibre rifle conditioned for deer.

    The "why do you need two rifles for the same thing" argument is fairly easily dealt with. The Home Office guidance states that you should be able to exercise choice in the calibre you want to use.

    As said, write to them and ask them for clarification of their reasoning IN WRITING prior to the FEO visit, so that you can pass it to your shooting organisation for opinions.

  5. #5
    Hi all - quick update

    went better than I expected, FEO saw my point, discussed possibility of AOLQ, but agreed I'd get some written evidence from friends who can vouch for my firearms experience in the past for a future variation, and that if I can produce that and find some permanent land permission, then I'd be able make a good case for an open cert.

    Laying what I though reasonable on the table and arguing my point was defo worthwhile

    regards the .308, he's accepted and put it through for target primary justification and also deer - he's put that forward to the head office, so hopefully good news

    plus he's cleared me with a .303 for playing on the ranges

    cheers all for the advice

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by matt_hooks View Post
    Their only possible objection, and it's not really a valid one, is that you want two rifles for the same reason. I see it as un-necessarily restrictive, when you already have proven (and approved) "good reason" to hold a deer calibre rifle conditioned for deer.

    The "why do you need two rifles for the same thing" argument is fairly easily dealt with. The Home Office guidance states that you should be able to exercise choice in the calibre you want to use.

    As said, write to them and ask them for clarification of their reasoning IN WRITING prior to the FEO visit, so that you can pass it to your shooting organisation for opinions.
    I had a similar case arise, I already owned a .270 and wanted a .243 primarily for foxes but also wanted to be able to use for deer.

    I was asked why I wanted a second deer calibre, I explained I was going to use the .243 with lighter loads for better trajectory for longer range foxes, but did not want to be restricted to not being able to use for deer if the need arised. This was an OK answer in the view of my FEO.

    Good luck with your visit.

    Cheers

  7. #7
    I was asked why I wanted a second deer calibre, I explained I was going to use the .243 with lighter loads for better trajectory for longer range foxes, but did not want to be restricted to not being able to use for deer if the need arised. This was an OK answer in the view of my FEO.
    A perfect example of "need" as opposed to "want"
    (The Unspeakable In Pursuit Of The Uneatable.) " If I can help, I will help!." Former S.A.C.S. member!

  8. #8
    finnbear270,

    My approach exactly.

    Good Reason may be what the regs state, but there is a big difference between need and want. Do your homework first and then things go smoothly.

    Stan

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by finnbear270 View Post
    A perfect example of "need" as opposed to "want"
    I disagree.

    It is 'good reason' as well as 'want'.

    'Need' I don't see anywhere here

  10. #10
    I hope they hurry up with your variation. Mine took 4 months.

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