Zeiss Diatal 6x42

2-dead-in-the-air

Well-Known Member
Equired the above but its only got one turret (on the top) with 4 small screws under the cap. It also has a rail under the scope. The reticle is similar to No4 but without the thin lines. Any idear how to adjust and what reticle no. it is.
 
Older German scopes often had the windage adjustment incorporated in the rear mount, via opposing jam screws. You'd probably need to take it to a gunsmith in Germany to find a suitable set of mounts. Even if the top half of the mounts are still fitted to the scope, the mounting plates which go on the rifle can be very expensive to find and fit.
 
Reckengle, Apel still make the rail type mounts. If you go to France the Edward Kettner's stores also stock them and their bigger stores employ gunsmiths, or used to according the to old catalogue I have, now it also depends on the rifle as some seem more commonly fitted with rail mounted scopes than others. Brno made mounts for their ZKK modles and Zeiss Jena scopes are commonly encountered, well fairly commonly, with these scopes and mounts.

ZKK601StockFiguring.jpg


ZKK601Mount.jpg


Of course the mounts differed for long and short actions.
 
also what mounts will i need to fit this onto my Remington 700 .243

These scopes are normally fitted to SEM mounts (Suhler Einhakmontage) in the USA known as claw mounts.
There is a usually a ring soldered to the barrel forward of the receiver with a dovetail cut in it then this has a block driven in sideways which has the lower front mount with 2 slots in it, also the rear lower mount is soldered (sweated) or screwed onto the rear reciever ring. This picture will help to understand the principles involved.
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=3087696
I have a large collection of them.
In the USA today a full set of lower and uppers fitted will run to 2400 dollars.
Martin
 
As I said Apel do them:-

http://www.eaw.de/eaw/index_uk.php/item/302

You will notice that they make a wide variety of mounts for all applications and yes they do rail mounts for common rifles. You can also contact Zeiss as it seems they also make their ow mounts for the rail mounted scopes:-

http://www.zeiss.com/c1256bcf0020be5f/Contents-Frame/28cd8261ef472909852575ed006404b0

At $156US that's a darned sight cheaper than the $2400 US quoted in the post earlier ;).


Thank you Brithunter...

Do you know what the 4 screws are about.. under the cap of the top turret ?
 
As I said Apel do them:-

http://www.eaw.de/eaw/index_uk.php/item/302

You will notice that they make a wide variety of mounts for all applications and yes they do rail mounts for common rifles. You can also contact Zeiss as it seems they also make their ow mounts for the rail mounted scopes:-

http://www.zeiss.com/c1256bcf0020be5f/Contents-Frame/28cd8261ef472909852575ed006404b0

At $156US that's a darned sight cheaper than the $2400 US quoted in the post earlier ;).

Yes cheaper they are but they are made for the newer Zeiss rail and have nothing to do with the scope being discussed in this post.
These scopes were the best available in the 60s and 70s and the mounts used were intended for driven game or boar hunts in Europe where the gun could remove the scope in the blink of an eye and use open sights as they were still wary of the scopes fogging up or getting broken so they were often carried in their rucksack but they would always shoot to point of aim again when refitted. but engineering moves on and Zeiss finally developed a different effective rail system but it is only dimensioned for Zeiss scopes (patented). the Swaro"s etc have a different size rail so you are stuffed if yeu decide to change makes of scope then you must change the mounts also. The old rail was called a prismen schiene and all European scopes used the same dimensions as the standard rail mounting system usually with a 26mm tube.
The lateral adjustment on SEM rails was contained in the upper rear mount and worked similar similar to the Redfield system with contra screws but it all had to be hand fitted to the gun as there was no standardisation of dimensions in the European gun industry in those days as most guns were hand fitted and finished today with CNC it is easy to standardise, so it was then in the 60s all precision gunmakers work.
Answer to your problem is to get a redfield/Leupold normal mount rail screw and glue it to the rifle and get rings for the 700 rifle in 30mm diameter and then get some split bushes turned up by the local machine shop as adaptors to bring the diameter down to 26mm (this will cost). Or get 1 inch (25.4mm) rings and then open them up yourself to 26mm then remove the rail on the scope where the Redfields will be located with careful fine toothed file work and Bob is then related to you.
Martin
 
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Thank you Brithunter...

Do you know what the 4 screws are about.. under the cap of the top turret ?

Sorry I do not. I have a Carl Zeiss Diatal 4x32 that has them. It's a rail mount too currently with the claws attached. I brought it off the auction site for a project the otehr year but the elevation adjustment, the only one it has, is seized from not being moved I guess. The plan is to send it back to Zeiss for a service next year.

I has one silver screw and three black ones equally spaced. Hopefully Zeiss can include some information when it goes back. My plan is to fit it to the 6.5x54MS Schoenauer eventually but the Schoenauer needs a new stock to go wiht the new barrel.
 
My advice would be to leave that old Diatal as it is and don't try to alter it at all. There is a growing interest in old rifles and scopes and it would be a shame to alter it.

Keep your eye on the classifieds and there are plenty 6x42 german scopes coming up for sale for £200 to £300 which with a set of standard Rem 700 mounts can very easily be fitted to your rifle.

Then keep your old Zeiss or sell it for a similar amount to somebody who is looking for one.
 
Yes cheaper they are but they are made for the newer Zeiss rail and have nothing to do with the scope being discussed in this post.
These scopes were the best available in the 60s and 70s and the mounts used were intended for driven game or boar hunts in Europe where the gun could remove the scope in the blink of an eye and use open sights as they were still wary of the scopes fogging up or getting broken so they were often carried in their rucksack but they would always shoot to point of aim again when refitted. but engineering moves on and Zeiss finally developed a different effective rail system but it is only dimensioned for Zeiss scopes (patented). the Swaro"s etc have a different size rail so you are stuffed if yeu decide to change makes of scope then you must change the mounts also. The old rail was called a prismen schiene and all European scopes used the same dimensions as the standard rail mounting system usually with a 26mm tube.
The lateral adjustment on SEM rails was contained in the upper rear mount and worked similar similar to the Redfield system with contra screws but it all had to be hand fitted to the gun as there was no standardisation of dimensions in the European gun industry in those days as most guns were hand fitted and finished today with CNC it is easy to standardise, so it was then in the 60s all precision gunmakers work.
Answer to your problem is to get a redfield/Leupold normal mount rail screw and glue it to the rifle and get rings for the 700 rifle in 30mm diameter and then get some split bushes turned up by the local machine shop as adaptors to bring the diameter down to 26mm (this will cost). Or get 1 inch (25.4mm) rings and then open them up yourself to 26mm then remove the rail on the scope where the Redfields will be located with careful fine toothed file work and Bob is then related to you.
Martin

Martin,

I don't know about the OP but there is no way I am going to butcher any of my rail maonted scopes int eh way you describe. Now just checked and compared the raisl on:-

4x Hensoldt Duralyt
Zeiss jena ZF6/N
Carl Ziess Dialtal 3x32

The rails differ in width by 0.008"............................ hardly an earth shattering amount ;). The body tubes however vary from 26mm to just under 29mm.

Oh my Zeiss Dialtal came in a rather splendid Akah leather case :cool:. I shall need to get the leather strap replaced but that's it for the case.

I would still contact Zeiss as they will probably be able to help if not then your down to reckengle of Apel and Apel DO MAKE MOUNTS TO FIT! They just cost about £300 or so :(. The UK importers seem helpful enough if rather expensive as I spoke to them at the newark show.

Hopefully I will be able to find another supplier as in the next year I shall need a set of Apel mounts to mate this 4x32 Zeiss Dialtal to the Model 1903 Mannlicher Schoenaur it should make an excellent combination methinks :D.

Oh as for the wonders of CNC's everyone seems to forget the Pattern and gauging system :rolleyes: funny how you can still buy a part for an old BSA rifle and it will fit straight off the bat. Odd that when they didn't have any CNC machines..................................... but they did have skilled workers ;) it was not only in the gunmakers that this happened either. Monotype a Corporation who made type face making machines shipped them all over the world and a machine some 40 years old could be fitted with a new part recently made at the Monotype's factory at Salfords in Surrey and it would fit straight away. It's called quality control something that is sadly lacking is a lot of modern factories :(. It's also funny how cars parts also fitted off the shelf before the advent of the glorious CNC machines!
 
I agree with you about the quality control point.
I think all the scopes you mentioned are the older generation and were fitted with the prism rail under the tube and front objective lens and of course they are near identical.
Its the new Zeiss stuff thats gone for this uptirned T slot fixing similar to that as used on lathe and milling machine fixtures and they seem not to have agreed yet on an industry standard for this method.
I was only suggesting the rail removal as a simple way to fit the scope to a 700.
£300 seems about right for the mounts for a normal bolt action rifle plus fitting charges I spoke to EAW and they will not sell to the public so only available through approved importers or any gunsmith with of course all the mark ups involved.
It just gets pricey when you start fitting to Sauer or similar drillings combination guns and thats where the 2600 bucks price tag pops up, most American gunsmiths will take the work on as it is too difficult to do.
I can always try to help out at this end if anyone needs it.
Martin
 
Ahhh Martin,

As the new scopes like the Zeiss are so far out of reach for my meagre pocket yes I have to buy the old ones when I can and due to this I have never even looked at the new ones. The dealers etc would not appreciate the drool over them of their display cabinets I doubt :oops:.

It has crossed my mind to try and make up some bases to fit the claws attached to my Zeis Dialtal 4x32 but that is as far as it's got. As yet I have not even looked to see if the claws are spaced suitably. Need to finish the other two projects first before starting another especially one that needs a new stock with the associated costs. By the time it's finished my cheap Schoenauer will be anything but cheap :doh:. meanwhile I will probably order a set of Apels from a place in the US to fit a common action as theya re a fraction of the price the UK importers want.
 
Bass Pro Shop in Orlando.
There is good hog hunting in the middle of the state, I do not think it has a closed season as they are vermin there.
Ozzies Crab House in Melborne Fla serves great food, we had the memorial to my late friend in March 2010 there as the owner was also a pal of his, he is a bit crazy but a good laugh too and I reckon he could put you onto the local hot hunting spots just say a friend of Rods called Martin sent you.
Have fun.
Martin
 
Had a email back from Zeiss with details about adjustment very interesting, sorted, just need to sort out mounts now.


Would you care to share the adjustment info? you can PM it if you like. I have not been able to get mine sent off due to other finacial commitments. Hopefully later this year.
 
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