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Thread: proofing moderators

  1. #1

    proofing moderators

    I am very unclear what the position is regarding moderators and proofing. My dilemma comes about because there are conflicting views and lack of clarity legally. Take the following:


    • Moderators seem to be sold proofed and unproofed.



    • legal rulings in the earlier part this decade (approx. 2003) seem to suggest that a moderator is not part of a barrel and therefore does not require proofing



    • advice that a barrel and moderator shuld be proofed together



    • countless folk seem to make their own moderators and do not proof them



    • you can chop and change moderators between rifles at your own discretion (assuming you advise Firearms Licensing).


    Does anyone have a defintive view? I should say also, that I am not wanting to start a debate on safety/common sense but just trying to get a handle on what the legal position is.

    Many thanks
    Last edited by Fiamhor; 31-12-2010 at 10:16.

  2. #2
    Also, has anyone heard of barrels and moderators needing to be proofed together?

  3. #3
    Oh not again.

    Search the site. The subject has been covered before, ad nauseum.

    Here's one to get you started: Screw cutting and proof house AND BEING CONNED
    Last edited by KevinF; 31-12-2010 at 13:37.
    KevinF -

  4. #4
    Why not ask YOUR firearms licensing department what their take on it is?
    Thats not meant to be a smart arsed answer, different forces apply different logic to their interpretation of firearms law.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by pigglet View Post
    Why not ask YOUR firearms licensing department what their take on it is?
    Thats not meant to be a smart arsed answer, different forces apply different logic to their interpretation of firearms law.
    Are you serious?

    Logic and Police forearms Licensing int eh same sentance next you will saying they are intelligent .

  6. #6
    A lot, but not all firearms licensing departments don’t know there arse from their elbow, then some think they can make or interpret the law as they think best, which normally means more restrictions on the law abiding firearms owner.

    As has been already said, in law you do not need a Moderator or a screw cut barrel proofed and yes you can sell it without proof. Some RFDs will not sell you a moderator unless proofed; this is for two reasons, of the two big companies that offer RFDs public liability insurance one insists that they will not cover a claim if moddy/barrel was not proofed, the other Insurance company is not bothered. Of cause if a moddy goes to proof this is another opportunity for the RFD to add a bit more to his profit. Although to be fair if a rifle/moderator goes though proof OK then if you have a “bullet strike” afterwards you could not have tighten the moddy on right so no claim against the RFD. Only problem there is I know of one RFD that sent a rifle for proof with no firing pin in and it still passed proof.

    As been said this topic has been done to death before.

    ATB

    Tahr

  7. #7
    Apologies if this is dragging up a 'dead' issue, but I read the other thread linked above and it is still not clear to me. Where is the law or guidance that states that re-proof is not required? Is there case law that supports this? Surely the reason that it is unclear is that it depends if the screw cut unduly or materially alters the integrity of the barrel, which in turn cannot be verified other than by passing (re)proof. I can see that the moderator itself may not require proof testing, but then when it is attached to the barrel and a cartridge is fired a poorly fitting moderator could cause a barrel blow up (in an extreme case) and therefore it could be argued that attaching a moderator could unduly or materially alter the integrity of the barrel, therefore requiring proof testing. It would appear to be a catch-22 situation and if legal precedence or guidance is lacking then the safest recourse is to get both proofed.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by JabaliHunter View Post
    Apologies if this is dragging up a 'dead' issue, but I read the other thread linked above and it is still not clear to me. Where is the law or guidance that states that re-proof is not required? Is there case law that supports this? Surely the reason that it is unclear is that it depends if the screw cut unduly or materially alters the integrity of the barrel, which in turn cannot be verified other than by passing (re)proof. I can see that the moderator itself may not require proof testing, but then when it is attached to the barrel and a cartridge is fired a poorly fitting moderator could cause a barrel blow up (in an extreme case) and therefore it could be argued that attaching a moderator could unduly or materially alter the integrity of the barrel, therefore requiring proof testing. It would appear to be a catch-22 situation and if legal precedence or guidance is lacking then the safest recourse is to get both proofed.
    Apologies noted , but you are dredging up an old issue that has been done to death on just about every forum going. Jacksons took the proof house to court over this, and won. Moderators do not need proof. If you need links and searches finding to prove this to your own satisfaction I suggest you get busy.

    Simon
    Blindness to suffering is an inherent consequence of natural selection. Nature is neither kind nor cruel but fiercely indifferent.

  9. #9
    The Met Police and the Proof Hourse took Joe Beatham of Gunshop to court over this and lost.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Brithunter View Post
    The Met Police and the Proof Hourse took Joe Beatham of Gunshop to court over this and lost.
    Moderators were not even invented (first patent Henry Maxim of machine gun fame) when the proof law was written, so how can the proof law apply to them.

    That will be the same Met’ police that tried to prosecute a gun club for owning a section 5 firearm, a Browning buckmark rifle, when it was over 24” long and have a barrel over 12”, they lost that one as well, all they needed was a tape measure to save a load of tax payers money.

    ATB

    Tahr

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