stalkers in the woods - i'm a mountainbiker

Basically i ride 'downhill' mountain bikes, we have a little know about track deep in some woods, on as far as we know FC land - the woods has FC signage on entrance.

walking up the fire road to our spot, its about a 1.5 mile walk from the car park deep into the woods. 3 4x4's pass us. we get to the mtb track we've built and we can see the 4x4s on the bottom fire road, they begin shooting, we ignore it and carrying on riding - they must have seen us. about 3 hours later one of them comes up to us telling us we shouldn't be there as its private shooting ground and that we must leave immediately.

we obliged, not wanting to get shot.

i have heard shooting in the area before, but on the private land on the other side of the river, pretty sure they where using shot guns to get pheasants at that time.

also one of them had keys to the padlock to access the fireroad.

however, i'm not sure they were ligit.



i have often seen horse riders in the vicinity, i know they would need a permit to ride on the land, they would know any shooting boundaries?

there is no boundary, fence, markers, lines nothing

there is also zero signage (another riding spot we go to has a shooting ground next to it - maristow estate in the plym valley, they have loads of signage in there)

i'm pretty sure they were deer stalking, they had rifels with sights (not shotguns)



does anyone have a clue about permits/licenses required? or can share any insight?

i imagen we scared off any game anyway, being brightly dressed and on big, bright, loud mountain bikes.
 
Hi Orangesrule,

It'll be a tough one to discuss without further information on the specific area. Not all areas are entirely public. If the people you saw with rifles and shotguns were accessing via a locked gate, on FC land, it is likely that they do have all the necessary paperwork. I at least hope that they do!

I'm not going to be able to help you too much with this one - being a detached northern lad. But it is likely that you'll need to surrender a bit more information for a useful response to be given.

Regards,

DC

P.S. It is a general rule of the forum that anyone wishing to post must make their first an introduction. Granted, it appears that you have no interest in deer stalking beyond how it affects your pushbike, it may still be worthwhile.
 
I had 3 woodlands that were well used by soft MTB types and walkers with bobbly hats and even friggin husky sled teams but i usually had been out and home again before the had breakfast and they were long gone in the evening. What really hacked me off was the RAF helicopters searching for the MTB types with legs up thier backs and teeth embedded in rocks.... Thing is the MTB 's don't go up mountains and half the time they are pushing them through trees...Love the lycra tho!!
 
Have you ever looked at an Ordanance Survey map? The tracks marked in green, on mine, denote a right of public access, the black dots and dashes denote tracks, but they are tracks without public access rights.

What makes you think you have a right of access onto this land?

I find it hard to believe that shooting carried on if you were in danger of being in the firing line! No sensible stalker wants there to be a tragic accident, even if you were there illegally. Most of people that stalk in the UK have land across which the public have access. But we all address this by various methods, like shooting at times which the general public are rarely up and about. Unfortunately the public do not always stick to proper public access footpaths, and are liable to wander about on land, often unaware of the damage that they do, or the danger which they could be in. If in doubt ring the owners of the land next door, they will soon tell you who the owners are.

Simon
 
haha, sadly I do not wear lycra. i don't mind if these guys where ligit, i play with bikes you play with guns you have to do it somewhere. its just that if they weren't and therefore poaching its another matter. like I say surely there would be some signage!?

there are lots of horse riders on this land...it'd be easy enough to get a gate key?

i'm going to email the FC just to see what their stance on it is?


i don't mind being around shotguns, as they have very little range range...rifels on the other hand concern me a little.

(oh and the mtb do go up mountains when we can...did 2 weeks in the alps this summer, sadly we have nothing like that in the southwest)
 
i am sure deer get used to the interlopers in the woods instead of stalking around on tippy toes i have considered donning bright clobber and making a puffing noise as i jog round lol . on one wood we stalk we actually put estate signs up to stop access most must be illiterate !!!
 
sounds like they are legit to me,they had keys to access the road they obviously knew where they were and they did approach you to tell you that you should not be there! if they were not legit they'd have been off like a shot. these lads and or land owner are probably expecting a visit off the police because people that think they have the right to be there generally phone the police to complain straight away,why did you not if you thought they were up to no good? you have said "our spot" and "the track we've built" and you don't know the land owner for sure? trespass is a civil offence and you've left when told to do so thats OK but building a track could make it aggravated trespass...... a criminal offence!
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if its a footpath, walkers are allowed but bikes are not; if its a bridleway, walkers and horses are allowed but bikes are not; if a landowner makes a specific for mountain bikes, then bikes are allowed if the trail is not already designated a bridle way or footpath. I assume that this "mtb track we've built" is a either a green lane or specific cycle trail built or authorised by the FC? If not then whoever told you that you shouldn't be there is presumably correct. As for whether the shooters themselves should be there, the FC often leases shooting rights when it is the landowner, or if the FC is a tenant then the actual landowner may still own the shooting rights. I don't think there is any obligation to put up signs as FC land is still technically private (FC is a landowner or tenant) and not land with a public right of access, although they may in practise often turn a blind eye to public access.
 
Hi oranges rules i am from plymouth where were you riding was it cann woods or some where else? I do know the guy who does fc stalking there and a couple other areas around.
 
it wasn't cann woods (i know that area very well and know the game keeper over there), it was over near bere alston. sorry im not going to get in an arguement in the rights and wrongs about having a small trail on this land, there are no built features, just merely a a track cleared from brash. there are enduro tracks in the same woods very near by, this is hardly the same thing.
 
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Orange , by your obvious insecurity on this matter, you sound like you are without permission to be there yourself, wether other users were there or not.
 
hello orangesrule,
to be honest i think your getting all the flack here for all the mtb that have ever ruined a days stalking which i think is a bit harsh. what i would like to say tho is fair play for asking. i dont think for one minute that anyone on this site will be able to tell you tho if who you saw was poaching or not but what i would like to adress tho is that you basical thought that they may shoot you. now come on were stalkers not murders but any way, to keep yourself safe whilst out out mountain biking just keep to the public rights of way, by law we are not alowed to shoot to close to rights of ways for your own saftey but problems do arise when people stray away from where there used to be, be it a rambler who thinks they know a better route or a down hill mountain biker whom has just spotted the best run of ther life. so basicaly in summery just stick to where your allowed to go by law or where you have permission to be and you wont go far wrong.
well now we have told you what we expect from you heres what you can expect of us as shooters, as i have already said we are not allowed to shoot to close to a public right of way but also you should expect us not to be shooting over a right of way but before you hear a shot and then go mad at someone just ask your self did that shot actually go over me or did the sound of the shot just echo around me. one other thing you can also expect from us is that if we do catch you off of a public right of way we could be very angry, you have metioned that you know a local keeper so i take it you know the stresses he/she faces on a daliy bases and finding that someone has scared there birds out of a area just by being there just isnt on, but also spare a thought for some out stalking whom you have just ruined there day for by scaring of there deer bearing in mind that some people travel very far to go stalking and with some deer costing over £1000 to shot you could understand why they might be a little upset with what might seem to you as a simple mistake as after all stalking to some is not just a hobbie but source of income which supports ther families and puts a roof over there heads.
anyway as i have alteady said thanks for asking and i hope that you will learn somthing from this and i hope that you are also able to put across a few of your views as a mountain biker
all the best
sir-lamp-alot
 
Orangerules

Well as you see you may have stepped in the Lions den here. Some of us mountain bike/run and walk in the forest, not only deer stalk so we can see things from both sides. Leaving aside for the minute were you on a right of way or not, it sounds that the guys with guns were legit. As for putting up signs, on some of my stalking grounds the forestry company does not allow it, they like to keep the deer control discreet e so don’t expect to see signs, after all this is just a invitation for us to be physically attacked by some of the more extreme animal rights loonies.

Moving on to your personal safety, the irony was that at the time you were with the “stalkers” you were the safest you have ever been, there would have been no chance of you being attacked or mugged etc. To own a firearm all of them must have been vetted by the Police, it is harder to own a firearm that become a Police Officer so you were at no risk from them and it would have had to be a brave third party to attack you while these guys were around. If they were stalking on FC land then they would have had to spend £100s if not £1000s of pounds out of there own pocket on training before they would be granted access to this land, they would not have taken a unsafe shot that would endanger any member of the public.

Have fun on your bike, but remember this access you get free of charge to the woodland is paid for in part by deer stalkers paying thousands of pounds each for access to do there chosen sport.

ATB

Tahr
 
Thank you for those two well rounded replys, appreciate it. It did occur to me that we probably did ruin their days shooting; However, if i had actually realised it was a official shooting location, i would have never gone in there in the 1st place! :) like i say, i've popped an email off to the local forester, purely regarding boundaries/signage ect.

As a mountain biker I do appreciate your sport (and in some cases livelihood); however as i'm am sure you have gathered i am naive with it. I realise no stalker would really shoot with intent towards a walker/riders ect, but accidents do happen (i do realise they are highly skilled and accurate but yeh), so did have some concerns.

cheers

happy shooting :)
 
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As a stalker and some one who used to do a lot of mountain biking the advice you have had is good stick to the preen dotted lines on the map (public rights of way) and you shouldn't have any problems with stalkers or any one else involved with the management and conservation of the country side.

ATVB

Dave
 
Thank you for those two well rounded replys, appreciate it. It did occur to me that we probably did ruin their days shooting; However, if i had actually realised it was a official shooting location, i would have never gone in there in the 1st place! :) like i say, i've popped an email off to the local forester, purely regarding boundaries/signage ect.

As a mountain biker I do appreciate your sport (and in some cases livelihood); however as i'm am sure you have gathered i am naive with it. I realise no stalker would really shoot with intent towards a walker/riders ect, but accidents do happen (i do realise they are highly skilled and accurate but yeh), so did have some concerns.

cheers

happy shooting :)

You did the right thing in raising the question. Deerstalkers are very careful about where they shoot and take all possible precautions for the safety of other legitimate users of the ground and also illegal users and in most situations you are in no danger. As others have said deerstalking is usually carried out at times when bikers will not be in the woods but we quite often encounter walkers and joggers at ridiculously early hours of the day.

However, unless you have specific permission to be on the ground and stick to designated tracks, you do place an unfair burden on the deerstalkers and must in some way increase the risk to yourself. You must obey signs or requests to stay out of certain areas whilst deerstalking is taking place. No deerstalker is going to pull the trigger unless they are confident that the shot is safe but you can sometimes get a ricochet and, although very rare, if it happens it is unpredictable and uncontrollable .
 
What is "FC land"?

Regards,
Paul

Forestry Commision which is a Government run body it was set up to provide timber during the war when there was a shortage of timber. Its progressed or digressed into providing usage for the so called benefit of all.

But it supposedly belongs to the tax payers of this country
 
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