legal question

jimbo123p

Well-Known Member
My daughter's father-in-law lives in Tain. He does not hold a FAC. Is it possible for him to buy a moderator? Bring it south, give it to me and I tie it in and register it on my FAC. IE cut out rfd fees.
Jim
 
My daughter's father-in-law lives in Tain. He does not hold a FAC. Is it possible for him to buy a moderator? Bring it south, give it to me and I tie it in and register it on my FAC. IE cut out rfd fees.
Jim

I'd get the inlaw to ask Gregor (assuming that's where you'd be buying)
 
Short answer is no ! Same as him picking up a rifle and bringing it down to you .

The risk is Macleod lose their RFD you lose your ticket and all three of you become HMP residents.
 
Short answer is no ! Same as him picking up a rifle and bringing it down to you .

The risk is Macleod lose their RFD you lose your ticket and all three of you become HMP residents.


Really... Is it that cut and dried?

Here's what Jackson Rifles put up on their web pages.

In Great Britain, detachable suppressors or "sound moderators" which are intended for use as accessories for Section 1 or Section 5 (prohibited) weapons are subject to Section 1 licensing controls and cannot be purchased directly by mail order. We can only deliver them to a registered firearms dealer.

Seems fairly straightforward that, doesn't it?

but...

Would the inlaw "intend" using it as an accessory for S1 or S5 firearms... Not according to what Jimbo says. So how would he break the law in purchasing it and by reciprocal thinking how would the supplier be breaking the law by selling it to him?

Does Jimbo have the slot on his ticket for one... if we assume yes... how would he be breaking the law if he is the end receiver/user of the moderator.

Does the moderator need to be proofed?

again I refer you to Jackson Rifles web pages:

A. Summary and recommendations:
  1. In the absence of any court decision to the contrary, we are advised that a suppressor or sound moderator, which is a freely removable accessory, designed to be interchangeable between weapons of different types and calibres, ought not to be considered to be a "part of a Small Arm". Such an accessory is not liable to fall within the definition of a "Barrel" in the Gun Barrel Proof Act 1868.
How straightforward is the answer now?​
 
It would not happen. However the scenario is unfolding where it could be done, legally. The F-in-l Has no interest in Firearms so as stated he has no use for the mod as it is entended so no legal reason to refuse sale. I doubt if Gregor would sell him one. But that is by the way.
Another legal idiocincracy,
Jim
 
Jim, It could not be done legally. The definition of a firearm under section 1 Firearms Act 1968 includes all component parts and accessories. The moderator immaterial of your F-I-L ,s intent to pass it onto you is an accessory for a section 1 firearm and therefore in itself requires the person in possession to have an FAC with an entitlement to hold that mod. Section 57 of said act gives definition.
 
I was talking to a chap and he said some thing about some Moderators not being calibre specific and that some would drop on an air rifle if he was to buy it as an air rifle mod and then transfer it to you as a cf mod i cant see him brakeing the law would be down to the RFD i think.
 
Jim, It could not be done legally. The definition of a firearm under section 1 Firearms Act 1968 includes all component parts and accessories. The moderator immaterial of your F-I-L ,s intent to pass it onto you is an accessory for a section 1 firearm and therefore in itself requires the person in possession to have an FAC with an entitlement to hold that mod. Section 57 of said act gives definition.

Scopes?... Slings?... Bipods? ..... They are all accessories/component parts on my rifles, I don't recall showing a certificate to get any of those.
 
When we want firearms kit we all have to factor in all the R.F.D expenses/costs, why even try to have someone compromise their ethics/livelihood by asking them a compromising question?
 
When we want firearms kit we all have to factor in all the R.F.D expenses/costs, why even try to have someone compromise their ethics/livelihood by asking them a compromising question?

Sorry, I can't see what the problem is. The RFD can answer the question without being compromised in any way. If he feels it's not on he'll say so. I stand by the answer I gave at post #2 on this thread.
 
So if Jimbo's Father in law wished to buy a sound moderator to use as a paper weight, what would be illegal about that?

The interesting part of the transaction could be having it put on your licence, doing it yourself could raise questions, and a local RFD could resent you for not making the purchase from them in the first place.
 
Tamus

I can see your argument and i'm not disagreeing with you . But where do you think the law would stand on his father in law as intend to supply a moderator for a sect 1 firearm ?
Surely that is the point when it becomes a problem under UK law ? When is a pipe a barrel ?

But this is proberbly accademic as i do not think a RFD would take the risk of supply and be the court test case .

ATB coldweld
 
Tamus

I can see your argument and i'm not disagreeing with you . But where do you think the law would stand on his father in law as intend to supply a moderator for a sect 1 firearm ?
Surely that is the point when it becomes a problem under UK law ? When is a pipe a barrel ?

But this is proberbly accademic as i do not think a RFD would take the risk of supply and be the court test case .

ATB coldweld

Until now, I've not been making an argument and I'm certainly not suggesting any RFD would do anything improper.

I would argue this though; Asking the right question in the right way at the right time can make all the difference to getting the answer you really want to hear.

That's always been my experience anyway.

Now, if the answer is really wanted, just pick question, way and time.


ps. In this instance it's actually all about the cost. So, I'd ask if I can have it cheaper please?.. from a local RFD.
 
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Scopes?... Slings?... Bipods? ..... They are all accessories/component parts on my rifles, I don't recall showing a certificate to get any of those.

Was in a bit of a hurry to get out. Under Section 57(1)(c) a section 1 firearm is defined as including "any accessory to any such weapon designed or adapted to diminish the noise or flash by firing the weapon".

In that you require to apply for a mod on your FAC I would think that in law, a moderator, even when not fitted to any particular firearm is considered through design to be an accessory as per section 57(1)(c) and would require any possessor to hold an FAC with an entitlement to acquire/possess a mod.
 
what kind of moderator? what calibre?
if it is for a .22 or HMR etc you can pick those up over the counter without an FAC, primarily as they can be used for air rifles. your range might be limited however

I know this as I just bought one that works better on my .22 than the Parker Hale I had to have on my FAC!
 
i have a moderator "no makers name" .."no visible numbers" on my ticket. with this i can go to the RFD (or send anyone else) to buy a new t8 or may be something else if i fancy a change (mod not proofed of course!) i would not be breaking the law,bring it home and put it next to my other mod if asked during a visit of an FLO,,,one is for a air rifle!!:D
 
So if Jimbo's Father in law wished to buy a sound moderator to use as a paper weight, what would be illegal about that?

The interesting part of the transaction could be having it put on your licence, doing it yourself could raise questions, and a local RFD could resent you for not making the purchase from them in the first place.

i have a moderator "no makers name" .."no visible numbers" on my ticket. with this i can go to the RFD (or send anyone else) to buy a new t8 or may be something else if i fancy a change (mod not proofed of course!) i would not be breaking the law,bring it home and put it next to my other mod if asked during a visit of an FLO,,,one is for a air rifle!!:D

This point has been raised before. My C/F sound moderators are not calibre specific, they are .30cal (it is stamped on them). But one is put on my FAC as a 6.5x55 moderator and the other as a .308. There is no other marking upon them, no serial number, no nothing, no way of identifying any specific moderator.

The law on this is a farce. I could easily use any one of them on any of the rifles I own. Yet my FEO has been told by his boss that each moderator is classed as a firearm and must have its own place in my cabinet, yes that's right, a resting place for each firearm and a resting place for each moderator because it is classed as a firearm :cuckoo: Now if you were so inclined, and gifted, you could make one of these moderators yourself and have it as a paperweight, and if you were to not posess an FAC presumably you would not be breaking the law :cuckoo: But woe betide you if you do have an FAC.

Now my moderators were placed on my FAC as I asked for them, but they cannot be entered on my FAC individually, there is no serial number.!!!!!

As Dickens once wrote, " then the law sir, is an ass". How apt ;)

Simon
 
I was told you can buy and hold a moderator with out a ticket, but when it is used or fitted to a firearm it becomes part of he fire arm. As said you can buy air gun mods that are the same as rim fires. I bought a new mod from wildcat over the phone and was sent mail order to firearms details were provided. I have on my ticked .243 mod no name or serial but I have now got three .243 mods.

Swisher44
 
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