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Thread: Sierra gameking 165 gr 30-06 load

  1. #1

    Sierra gameking 165 gr 30-06 load

    Hi All,
    Any suggestions for a load please?
    I have purchased IMR 4350 powder to load the above.
    The 2nd edition lee modern reloading states between 51.8-54.0 grains.
    But i have found that the data on the IMR site states you could start between 56.0-60.0gr
    Cheers
    Richard

  2. #2
    Hodgdon owns IMR and Lee's load data was derived in conjunction with Hodgdon's ballistics lab so I would go with the Books data. I know that Hodgdon uses direct pressure measurement for their data. I'm not sure about their IMR division.

    A note about max loads. Ever wonder why the MAX pressure is usually below the SAAMI (CIP) listed maximum allowable pressure for the cartridge in question? It is because what they determine to be MAX for you and I is the average charge / pressure that stayed under those allowable pressures, when testing their loads. In other words, if they list X-grains as a MAX load, it is the load that when tested, reliably and repeatedly produced an average pressure that kept under the SAAMI pressure limit for the cartridge. This is why pushing beyond max with a high intensity cartridge is usually a foolish move. It's crap-shoot at best.

    Always, when determining loads, I go with A) the people who actually use a pressure lab VS computer models, and B) use starting loads from these guys. You aren't using the same dies and brass as the guys who produced the data and certainly, not the same gun. JMHO ~Muir

  3. #3
    Firstly Lee didn't do any work ups just printed others data. I brought a copy some years back and the load data never gets used from it.

    Hodgdons #26 yes it's old now) says 54.0-57.0 of IMR 4350

    Speer #13 says 54.0-58.0 of IMR 4350 with 165 grain bullet.

    Edit:- Hmmm I was not aware that Lee did any works ups. All the data in my book seesm to be directly taken for others. Have to look which edition I have!
    Last edited by Brithunter; 26-01-2011 at 13:52.

  4. #4
    http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

    The hodgon website, who now produce IMR powders put it at a max of 60gr and a min of 56gr.

    As 4350 is a slow powder don't go below 56gr and work up slowly watching all of the signs.
    Last edited by Grandhubert; 26-01-2011 at 20:49.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Brithunter View Post
    Firstly Lee didn't do any work ups just printed others data. I brought a copy some years back and the load data never gets used from it.

    Hodgdons #26 yes it's old now) says 54.0-57.0 of IMR 4350

    Speer #13 says 54.0-58.0 of IMR 4350 with 165 grain bullet.

    Edit:- Hmmm I was not aware that Lee did any works ups. All the data in my book seesm to be directly taken for others. Have to look which edition I have!
    They didn't work up the loads. They worked through different bullet weights using Hodgdon staff and test facilities. ~Muir

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Grandhubert View Post
    http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

    The hodgon website, who now produce IMR powders put it at a max of 60gr and a min of 56gr.

    As 4350 is a slow powder don't go below 56gr and work up slowly watching all of the signs.
    What will happen if one uses less than 56 grains?? ~Muir

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Muir View Post
    What will happen if one uses less than 56 grains?? ~Muir
    Quite probably nothing until the 4831 burn rate but I keep reading about the dangers of underloading slow powders and "pressure excursion" phenomena.

    I'm not sure what to make of it but prefer to err on the side of safety as I prefer to use faster powder for reduced loads anyway.

  8. #8
    The phenomenon is "detonation" where the doesn't burn fast or completely enough to get the bullet moving down the bore before the pressures increase exponentially and cause problems of varying degree. I have been reloading a very long time and have never seen this, nor read of a first hand, non-laboratory induced pressure excursion caused by light charges of slow burning powder. Back when 4831 and 4350 was dirt, dirt cheap, we used to load it in everything... including 223! We would use it in reduced loads with cast bullets using kapok filler to keep the powder charge back against the primer. (I think I used 30 grains in a 30-06) The kapok (cotton like fluff) filler proved to be more of a hazard then the charge weight!

    All this said, light charges of 4831 aren't efficient and may exhibit poor ignition and it burns so slowly that if you don't have a full case you're wasting powder and bullets. Most good 4831 loads are slightly compressed but 5% under any published starting load will be OK in my experience. ~Muir

  9. #9
    Muir,

    the 'detonation' phenomenon is almost entirely confined to large magnum size and other very 'over bore capacity' cartridge designs using powders that are very much slower burning than 4350, and has rarely if ever been induced under laboratory conditions. When it was first reported, the late B E Hodgdon, founder of the Kansas powder company, had great doubts about its existence and tried repeatedly and unsuccessfully to make it happen in the laboratory. He was of the opinion that while it might happen under vary rare conditions, most so-called detonation incidents were due to something else, such as an incorrect powder being used by mistake. It's happened often enough for most people in the industry to now accept that it is a possibility, albeit a very rare one. The exact mechanism has never been determined - the most common theory is that it involves the creation of a pressure wave in the case allied to the powder charge being slammed into the front end of the case in a solid compressed block of nitrocellulose.

    I would have few worries about seeing detonation in .30-06 with any of the 4350s even if only half to two-thirds standard charge weights were used. What you will inevitably get are large pressure variations and poor results due to the powder burning at inadequate and inefficient pressures. Detonation aside, use of a correct burning rate powder in sensible charge weights is a very GOOD IDEA. Some loading manuals print starting loads that are way too low in my opinion, down 15% or more on what are often modest maximum levels while Hodgdon traditionally advises users to start 6% below maximum, and 3% down with certain (usually ball) powders that need a maximum or near maximum charge to operate properly.

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