the article in the sun news paper

the highlander

Well-Known Member
another bad press report today about deer stalking about the deer culling in the nevis range stalkers told to cut of ears as proof of kill as the suposedly cull area was too hard to recover the carcasses
 
By the looks of it the article was lifted straight from yesterdays Oban Times. The John Muir trust didn't deny that this is what happened and for them to leave 40 carcasses on the hill is, in my eyes, inexcusable. Just another example of certain groups treating deer as vermin.
 
I just can not believe they could not be extracted! I could not have left a carcass! Let alone a whole cull
 
Bl**dy stupid way to go on, no wonder the general public find distaste in what we do.

Who in their right mind would leave 40 deer to root?

Surely if the public can get a them then they must be in breech of H&S regs
 
Bl**dy stupid way to go on, no wonder the general public find distaste in what we do.

Who in their right mind would leave 40 deer to root?
regs
Both the JMT and SEPA seem to think this disgusting means of deer control is totally acceptable! Just when you think you have heard it all this comes out. This "deer management" took place only a couple of miles from our boundary. Another example of organisation concerned in the natural regeneration of trees getting away with murder.

This kind of things boils my blood. There are NO excuses!
 
Disgraceful indeed. In these times how ofter is a deer genuinely in a position they can't be retrieved by a short drag to an argo? never mind all 40 of them. Not only does it do 'us' no help its just morally wrong.

George
 
DO these people not have any Morals Ethics. No wonder the general public have developed a dislike to shooting.
If the stalkers in question could not extract those deer why shoot the poor beast's, and then to cut there ears
of as proof. Bloody Butchers,totaly unexceptable behaviour.
 
Both the JMT and SEPA seem to think this disgusting means of deer control is totally acceptable! Just when you think you have heard it all this comes out. This "deer management" took place only a couple of miles from our boundary. Another example of organisation concerned in the natural regeneration of trees getting away with murder.

This kind of things boils my blood. There are NO excuses!


+1 on that, Dan. The worst of it is that some pillock will come out and try and justify this operation. With all thats happened what with the last 2 winters we have had in the highlands, the actions of the FCS in some areas, etc. Unbeleivable. NO excuses!-for so many reasons.
 
I thought this would be the usual "red-top" clap-trap. Full of part truths and other peoples' agendas. Then I went and read the following, on the John Muir Trust Website.

http://www.jmt.org/news.asp?s=2&nid=JMT-N10541

Not only are they unrepentant, they seem utterly oblivious to the notion of any sort of wrong doing, on their part.

Stunningly crass! :eek:
 
Very Bad for our sport i have heard of this before from contractors but most times it is Kept QT. It seems they are taking our most iconic animal and treating it like a verminous rat. These are the same people that want seasons removed so there will be absolutly no protection for wild life and deer will have no rest period if they have one now.:scared:
 
I have a natural suspicion regarding most newspaper reporting. Most of us won't know all the facts of the case - we base our opinions on what we read in the news reports. Personally I think this has all the makings of a PR disaster for the Trust, but before we all get worked up by the reporting in the Currant Bun, why not take the time to read their full policy on Deer Control:

http://www.jmt.org/policy-deer-control.asp

If you took out the one about leaving culled deer on the hill, most of us would probably agree with the remainder.

Also, note that their standard policy is to leave at least 5% of culled deer on the hill for the benefit of other wildlife. The reasons they give are as follows:

• If it is uneconomic to retrieve them
• If extraction is likely to have a significant detrimental impact on the environment (e.g. where ATV use will damage habitats)
• Where there are health and safety issues (e.g. too dangerous or physically difficult for staff to hand extract)
• If there are legal issues which impede extraction
• If the carcass is in poor condition (e.g. badly shot or damaged through falling down hill)
• If any SRDP schemes recommend leaving carcasses on the hill for eagles.

Let me say again that I don't personally agree with the practice, but at least they are open and honest about why they do it. I'd be interested to know what the total cull number was, to get an idea as to what percentage 40 beasts really represents.

This leads me to think about our objections.

Hopefully we all agree that, when shooting a deer, we should have respect for our quarry. For me, part of that respect is that I make use of the carcase by butchering it and eating it. If I didn't I'd go and shoot targets.

But if leaving the carcase in situ is going to benefit the broader environment, is that necessarily wrong?

Or is rather that we selfishly object to the fact that this news is bringing stalking into the public spotlight again?

I also note that they avoid, wherever possible, deer fences and the use of AGV's for deer extraction, and they object to the use of lead ammunition.

Just my humble opinion.

willie_gunn
 
This would seem to be the way of it nowadays.Deer in Scotland are now being classed as vermin by many bodies,and regretfully by many individuals as well.FC has probably the worst reputation of them all. Hopefully the members on this site who shoot for the FC have more morals than SOME contractors i`ve seen working
I have been working with deer for over 35 years ,and when i started deer were looked on as an asset, a beautiful ,intelligent animal that you respected and enjoyed.If you didn`t, you weren`t suited to the job and were soon on your way.That would not seem to be the case now!!
I am the 3rd generation of my family in this trade, and i`m sad to say, i`m glad my son has chosen a different career, as in my opinion there is little respect left for this superb animal,they are just looked on by many as a target!!
 
This would seem to be the way of it nowadays.Deer in Scotland are now being classed as vermin by many bodies,and regretfully by many individuals as well.FC has probably the worst reputation of them all. Hopefully the members on this site who shoot for the FC have more morals than SOME contractors i`ve seen working
I have been working with deer for over 35 years ,and when i started deer were looked on as an asset, a beautiful ,intelligent animal that you respected and enjoyed.If you didn`t, you weren`t suited to the job and were soon on your way.That would not seem to be the case now!!
I am the 3rd generation of my family in this trade, and i`m sad to say, i`m glad my son has chosen a different career, as in my opinion there is little respect left for this superb animal,they are just looked on by many as a target!!

FCS, SNH, JMT, all seem to be classing deer as vermin these days. It's a pretty sad situation.
 
A large Estate not far from this apparently left a similar amount of deer on the hill and they had the use of a helicopter for extracting carcases.
 
I haven't seen where the deer were shot, but there are areas where it is either impossible or totally uneconomical to extract carcasses.

As far as leaving deer on the hill, there are no welfare issues, in fact leaving carrion has great benefit as it should naturally occur and in these times of lower deer numbers the occurrence of naturally dead deer will get less.

What sense is their to put a mans life in danger on an atv for the sake of some venison?

Also what state were the deer in? maybe they would have starved if not shot?

The respect for deer is in how it is killed, who eats it whether human or eagle is of no consequence.
 
I haven't seen where the deer were shot, but there are areas where it is either impossible or totally uneconomical to extract carcasses.

As far as leaving deer on the hill, there are no welfare issues, in fact leaving carrion has great benefit as it should naturally occur and in these times of lower deer numbers the occurrence of naturally dead deer will get less.

What sense is their to put a mans life in danger on an atv for the sake of some venison?

Also what state were the deer in? maybe they would have starved if not shot?

The respect for deer is in how it is killed, who eats it whether human or eagle is of no consequence.

There is merit in what you say bambislayer. I guess its hard for many to understand that in some hill areas in Scotland it is not physically possible to retrieve all carcasses. This sounds abhorent, but does that mean that no cull takes place in these areas if the carcasses cannot be extracted?. I equally do not think that that is acceptable either.
It is very easy for the guys who shoot a few lowland roe to throw stones. Try hauling hinds out of a remote corrie with a 3 mile drag to get to the nearest ATV access!.
S.
 
We'll never know how many deer were actually culled because, according to what's published on the John Muir Trust's own website:

"Contractors were paid a daily rate to carry out deer control, and were not obligated to provide evidence of the number of deer killed."

Management plan? What management plan?
 
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