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Thread: Muzzleloaders

  1. #1

    Muzzleloaders

    Is it Legal to shoot Deer with Muzzeloading Rifles,here are some ballistic charts for .45 and .50 cal Sabots,reading what the BASC website states,it seems it would be legal in the UK but not Scotland

    http://www.blackpowderbullets.com/mu...s%20chart.html

    Bernie

  2. #2
    I remember reading about this in the ACPO FELWG muinets. if my memory serves me the subject was discussed following representation by either the BASC or NGO. The ACPO ruling was no.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by CharlieT View Post
    I remember reading about this in the ACPO FELWG muinets. if my memory serves me the subject was discussed following representation by either the BASC or NGO. The ACPO ruling was no.
    If you look at the link, the second load down

    .357 Dead Center - 195 grain - BC .375 - 120 gr. Triple Seven FFF - Winchester X150 .45 Distance (yards) Muzzle 50 100 150 200 250 300 Velocity (fps) 2290 2180 2073 1970 1871 1776 1684 Kinetic Energy (ft lb) 2270 2057 1861 1681 1515 1365 1228 Trajectory 1.8 3.3 2.8 0 -5.2 -13.3
    this load is the ballistics required by Scottish and English law,So to me its perfectly legal

    Bernie

  4. #4
    ACPO as I said have addresed the issue. I have found their reference to muzzleloaders and fox but cant find the minutes for 2001 when they addressed the subject of deer. Sorry I cant help further. Try asking the NGO.
    08/01/13 The use of muzzle-loading rifles to shoot fox
    13.1 Members considered previously circulated backing papers and Richard Udall reminded members that the use of muzzle-loading rifles had been considered in 2001 in the shooting of deer and provided copies of relevant documentation.
    13.2 The arguments against using muzzle-loaded rifles to shoot fox on the grounds of the quarry being obscured by smoke on firing and there being no facility for an immediate second shot were not entirely persuasive.
    13.3 Members agreed, however, that while animal welfare was not a policing issue, FELWG could not knowingly agree to something which may result in cruelty. The overriding duty of firearms licensing is, however, to consider public safety and members have deep concerns with regard to the inherent extra risks associated with the use of muzzle loading rifles.
    13.4 Members agreed the application in question should be turned down for public safety reasons and the chair will write to Bill Harriman (copied to Surrey Firearms Licensing).

  5. #5
    Errr since when did ACPO write the laws?

    The Law itself does not mention them is relation to hunting as it makes no mention of Black Powder loaded cartridges.

  6. #6
    Ive Dug about for a fair bit on this, and have come to the Conclusion that the law, governing bodies, BASC, Ect Ect are in this for the money nowt else,in the USA they have been Taking all Quarry Including Grizzley Bears with Muzzleloading Rifles, and still are Today,more Deer, Elk, Moose, Ect Each year than Centrefire Rifles

    The Ballistics above are what are Law Requires,so whats the Prob ???

    Bernie

  7. #7
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    I own and have hunted Deer with .270 WIN (Remi 700); 30-06 SPFD (Savage 111FCNS); .50 Muzzleoader (TC Omega); 12 Guage Shotgun slug gun, and with a Ten Point Turbo HLX Crossbow, and if given the choice hands down I would use the centerfire rifles in all situations.

    Yes a 50 cal Muzzleloader with drop a whitetail size deer like the Hammer of Thor if you get a heart or double lung shot, BUT accruacy as compared to a centerfire rifle is poor to say the least. A consistant experienced loader using premium Sabot's can reasonably hope, in my opinion at best have a 4" 3 shot group at 100 yards; whereas the same shooter would reasonably be expected to have sub MOA from a production CF Rifle shooting non premium factory ammo. We use Muzzleloaders and bows over here as it signicantly extends our Deer season. The reason that the various state Department's of Wildlife Management allow extended seasons for Muzzleloaders is that they recognize that the efficacy of Muzzleloaders are so much less than a CF rifle (due to both accuracy and followup chat capability deficiencies) that the 4 week typical muzzlelaoder season will result in the same number of filled deer tags as two week CF rifle season. This data comes about a each tag must not only record, when, where, but also how a deer was harvested when the paper tag is surrendered for the metal at the deer check station within 24 hours of kill.

    Couple more issues to consider:
    1. Because you must get in close with a Muzzleloader (75 yards or less), unless you are in a treestand (high seat for you guys), it can be dangerous so stalk in with a Muzzleloader, as you normally will have the 209 primer in place and there is no safety expect for half cock on nearly all muzzleloaders.
    2. Muzzloaders really Kick HARD even with two pellets of 777 or pryodex, and if you go for the max load of 150 Grains (3 pellets); then you better make sure you are not using a tree or any fixed hard object to steady your shot, because it can increase the felt recoil a lot.

    Bottom line, stick with CF Rifle's if at all possible, for both your safe and for the sake of your quarry.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernie Garland View Post
    Ive Dug about for a fair bit on this, and have come to the Conclusion that the law, governing bodies, BASC, Ect Ect are in this for the money nowt else,in the USA they have been Taking all Quarry Including Grizzley Bears with Muzzleloading Rifles, and still are Today,more Deer, Elk, Moose, Ect Each year than Centrefire Rifles

    The Ballistics above are what are Law Requires,so whats the Prob ???

    Bernie
    Scotland... minimum muzzle velocity 2450fps.... Sorry, the load you quote above doesn't do that and you must use expanding bullets. Are the bullets you would use expanders?

  9. #9
    Watch this Vid from 7 Mins in

    An inline muzzleloader

    Bernie

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernie Garland View Post
    Ive Dug about for a fair bit on this, and have come to the Conclusion that the law, governing bodies, BASC, Ect Ect are in this for the money nowt else,in the USA they have been Taking all Quarry Including Grizzley Bears with Muzzleloading Rifles, and still are Today,more Deer, Elk, Moose, Ect Each year than Centrefire Rifles

    The Ballistics above are what are Law Requires,so whats the Prob ???

    Bernie
    Bernie, I think you may have misspoken, while yes a significant number of animals are taken with Muzzleloaders each year here in the US. CF Rifles take by far the most, followed by shotguns shooting slugs and a close third between Bows and Muzzleloaders, but I think bows probably win out over muzzleloaders, simply based on the much greater number of Archary Stamps sold over Primitive Firearms (muzzleloader) stamps......No Stamp. NO HUNT.

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