Slow and Heavy Bullet Choice

liamnjs

Well-Known Member
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing so I was hoping someone could straighten me out on something I have only half understood.

Is it right that when considering slow-moderate velocity, heavy cartridges such as 6.5x55 and 9.3x62, standard soft points are usually preferable to premium, bonded bullets? As I (sort of) understand it this is because the lower velocities make it unlikely that a premium bullet will expand, while the high sectional density means that poor penetration is unlikely to be a problem with a standard soft points.

Is this correct? If so does this apply to all game or just thin skinned big game?
 
I have always but the bullet choice to the game, not the velocity. Even 2000 fps has the ability to drive a 220 grain, 30 caliber solid through the greater length of an Elk. I believe that most hunting rifles have enough energy to cause a bullet to expand provided it meets enough resistance.

I had these thoughts this morning as I was forming some 9.3x57 brass and loading up a few dummy cartridges with the PRVI 286 grain lead tipped SP bullets. My intended targets are deer but I feel that any deer raked through it's pulmonary system with this -or any- bullet is going to die. Also, there is no arguing that the .366" bullet will punch a large enough hole so that even if it were a solid, the holes in and out would be something a 243 shooter would respect.~Muir
 
A slow, heavy bullet has a loopy trajectory and is therefore better suited for use at shorter ranges.
Due to lack of velocity both expansion and penetration will suffer at longer ranges.
My first stalking rifle in 1961 was a Merkel, DB, O/U, 7X65R which was regulated to fire the 11.2 gramm or 173gr RWS softpoint-roundnose bullet.
I shot Chamois at 200 metres and Reds at similar distances with no problems but as with all my quarry species I try to get much nearer if possible.
We should attempt to be close-range stalkers and not long-range snipers who `chuck it and chance it`.
As with all rifles correct shot placement is more important than calibre or type of bullet used.

HWH.
 
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Shot placement is everything. I knew a hermit who hunted whitetails with using a 30-06 Springfield loaded with surplus 173 grain FMJ bullets, loaded over surplus powders. He always killed his deer quickly because he could place a shot with cold precision. ~Muir
 
The advice I have read is that anything under 3000fps does not require a premium bullet, precisely because of what Stag1933 said- the lower velocity causes issues with expansion. If this is indeed the case then am I right in thinking that as Muir suggests matching the bullet weight to the game is the way forward? If so does that in turn suggest that in an ideal world different bullet weights should be used on different deer according to their size (this being an ideal world of unlimited funds and never changing zeroes)?
 
Liam, if you read the reloading manuals they give the recommended fps range for each of their bullets. The Hornady premium bullets like the .308 interbond in 165gn have a range of 2,200-3,400 fps, so they will work from quite slow speeds. Like most information about reloading and ballistics, it is hard to generalise.

I use the 129gn SST's in my 6.5 and their range is 1,500-3,200 fps.

Simon.

Edit; I would think it unwise to expect a cheap softpoint to expand as well at very high speeds as it does at normal velocities, but I would expect a premium bullet to work well at all speeds that the manufacturers recommend.
 
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Liam, if you read the reloading manuals they give the recommended fps range for each of their bullets. The Hornady premium bullets like the .308 interbond in 165gn have a range of 2,200-3,400 fps, so they will work from quite slow speeds. Like most information about reloading and ballistics, it is hard to generalise.

I use the 129gn SST's in my 6.5 and their range is 1,500-3,200 fps.

Simon.

Edit; I would think it unwise to expect a cheap softpoint to expand as well at very high speeds as it does at normal velocities, but I would expect a premium bullet to work well at all speeds that the manufacturers recommend.

Thanks Simon, I have done some digging on t'internet (I do not yet own any manuals) and I see what you mean about the manufacturer's recommendations. So do you use the 129gn SSTs on all sizes of deer? I was looking at the 155gn Lapua Mega as my rifle seems to like these heavier bullets and I have seen it recommended for roe and for moose, but I cannot get my head around how one bullet can work well on game of such wildly different sizes.
 
Thanks Simon, I have done some digging on t'internet (I do not yet own any manuals) and I see what you mean about the manufacturer's recommendations. So do you use the 129gn SSTs on all sizes of deer? I was looking at the 155gn Lapua Mega as my rifle seems to like these heavier bullets and I have seen it recommended for roe and for moose, but I cannot get my head around how one bullet can work well on game of such wildly different sizes.


Liam, I shoot mainly fallow, a few roe and a very small proportion of muntjac and quite happily use 129gn SST's on all of them. I know one friend of mine in Scotland uses his 6.5 with 120gn BT's to great effect on red deer, and he shoots more than a few in a year, in fact far more in a year than I have ever shot. And they do punch through the red deer and leave a good exit hole.

I have been given some 140gn soft-points which I will try again, although I used to use Federal Powershok to good effect so there should be little difference. I have some Barnes TSX 130gn which I will try too (just in case they do ban lead). I bought some Sierra 100gn Varminters which produce ragged bug-holes at 100yds. The largest bullets I have used were Norma Oryx 156gn, they produced good groups too. But, and it's a big but, I am going to try 120gn BT's and sod what all the nay sayers and doom mongers say about them!

Simon
 
I now use Hornady 180gr sst's through my .308 running at approx 2450 fps ,so they are in no hurry to get there , but anything I hit stays hit . Very little carcass damage , most of my shots are sub 150m so trajectory isn't an issue for me.
Brough
 
Shot placement is everything. I knew a hermit who hunted whitetails with using a 30-06 Springfield loaded with surplus 173 grain FMJ bullets, loaded over surplus powders. He always killed his deer quickly because he could place a shot with cold precision. ~Muir
hi
congratulation for your choice of caliber. 9,3x57 has been all time favourite caliber among grey beard hunters in sweden!LOL
it has reputation to be moose- hammer ! many of old timmers here use only 9,3x57 for from roe to moose and boar even with fmj for shooting capercailles!!!, recently with population increase of boar the 9,3x57 gained a new revival. i know some hunters that use this caliber and load it both with lapua mega 286 grian and privi of same weight and are very satisfy,but newly 250 gr nosler accubond has become very populare , because it can be launched @2300 fps ! which giving better trajectory and higher energy.
concerning shot placement!
my late father(he passed away early 1970s) he had killed a great number of ibex and wild sheep during the 1913-1940 most for feeding a couple of hundred soldiers which were under his responsability when the governement failed to feed them:D. he wasen't a trophy hunter and always said why shooting a beast only for horns!! the older beasts with large horn are barely edible!!LOL their meat can be tough as leather!!!
he always used military weapon and fmj bullets first a mannlicher-berthier 8mm lebel and later in Brno vz and 8x57 both used heavy 196-198 gr fmj bullets.
once i asked him about the shot placement and he told me at longer range shoot thru the both shoulders and shorter range neck and behind ears:) they dropped all the time!!:) and ibex are known to be very tough games that can absorb a lot of lead before kissing the ground!!
cheers
daniel
 
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Is it right that when considering slow-moderate velocity, heavy cartridges such as 6.5x55 and 9.3x62, standard soft points are usually preferable to premium, bonded bullets?
I think that you are asking the question the wrong way around! But I understand what you mean nevertheless.

What maybe would be better to ask is when considering FAST and HIGH VELOCITY CARTRIDGES are premium bonded bullets usually preferable to standard soft points.

The answer is "yes" on most game that you intend to eat and a definite "no" of foxes and coyotes as at fast and higher velocities premium, bonded bullets expand less.

What then follows is that at anything other than fast and higher velocities is that standard soft point bullets WITH FLAT BASES are adequate.

Why? Because those velocities 2,400 to 2,700 fps are what the standard soft point bullet WITH FLAT BASE was designed for. Typically 303 British, 7x57 Mauser with 175 grain loads and 8mm Mauser or 30-06 with 180 grain loads.

Or today's modern "takes" or almost equivalents to the 300 Savage or 257 Roberts such as 308 Winchester or 260 Remington. Plus the old favourites in 6.5mm whether the Mannlicher or "the Swede".

So a standard "cup and core" soft point bullet will work well enough from 2,400 to 2,700 fps IF IT HAS A FLAT BASE as in these non-bonded "cup and core" designs the boat tail shape is more prone to core slippage.

When you cross that 2,800 fps threshold and edge up to 2,900 fps then I think that the premium bullets show advantages at close range (under seventy-five yards) over the standard "cup and core" designs.
 
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Is the 9.3mm x 57 calibre Husqvarna rifle also known as "the Swedish potato thrower"?
yes indeed :D, just because of 286 grain loading @ 2070 fps has such a trajectory compared to modern high velocity rounds, but loaded with 231 grain or nosler pointed bt 250 grain@2300 fps has frankly not such a bad trajectory upp to 200 yards or more!!and plenty of punch!!too
 
All of my Husqvarnas have iron sights. Fixed-elevation iron sights, so I shoot the bullets they were regulated for. In this case, the 286 for the 9.3 but really, 150M is my limit for iron sights. My 8x57's shoot 196 - 206 grainers.~Muir
 
All of my Husqvarnas have iron sights. Fixed-elevation iron sights, so I shoot the bullets they were regulated for. In this case, the 286 for the 9.3 but really, 150M is my limit for iron sights. My 8x57's shoot 196 - 206 grainers.~Muir
yes indeed i had a few huskies and all had fixed iron sight usually regulated for 80 meters to 100 meter depending to the caliber.
the reason 9,3x57 is called moose hammer is because it has a lot of punch on the target.
once we were fun shooting with some rifles of different caliber, 6,5, 8x57 and 9,3x57 at a trashed washing machin att around 100 yards away.every time we hit the target with 9,3 it knocked off the 30 kilo wash-machin and we had to run and rise the target up again:), but with the other calibers the heavy target only shaked but diden't fall!!
 
yes indeed i had a few huskies and all had fixed iron sight usually regulated for 80 meters to 100 meter depending to the caliber.
the reason 9,3x57 is called moose hammer is because it has a lot of punch on the target.
once we were fun shooting with some rifles of different caliber, 6,5, 8x57 and 9,3x57 at a trashed washing machin att around 100 yards away.every time we hit the target with 9,3 it knocked off the 30 kilo wash-machin and we had to run and rise the target up again:), but with the other calibers the heavy target only shaked but diden't fall!!

What fun!~Muir
 
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