BSA Monarch bolt removal?

charliefox

Active Member
Hi all,

Just bought what I believe to be a BSA Monarch in .270. For the life of me I now can't get the bolt out or remember how to :oops:

Could someone please put me on the right track?

Thanks in advance :)
 
OK, more wiggling than I thought required (of the safety, that is!) Seems like the safety needs to be "half on, half off", with a bit of a wiggle.

I assume that's correct, as it does seem to release.

Sorry for the thread cluttering! :)
 
Hmmm I don't know what your doing but on the Monarch you lift the bolt handle and draw it back about 1" the you press the trigger forwards...towards the muzzle and withdraw the bolt. It can take more pressure than you might expect but that's it on the 1st pattern Monarch. I am not sure about teh 2nd Pattern Monarch, this one does not have the dovetailed receiver, but on the CF2 it's the same as the older Majestic you lift the bolt handle and again open the bolt about 1" then holding the trigger to the rear you withdraw the bolt.

The safety needs to be off and your problem is most likely caused by someone adjusting the trigger incorrectly.

I hope that is helpful.
 
Thanks for the reply. I'm beginning to think my research was wrong and that it may be a CF2 as Wikipedia lists bolt removal as "pushing the safety half way off".

I think I may have to take some pics and see what you guys think...
 
What does the back of the bolt look like as most models of BSA rifles have slight variations of type ot bolt I was looking on gun trader at a BSA advertised as a CF2 which was an early hunter by the shape of the bolt but Brithunter has more knowledge than I do even though I have 3 BSA's.
 
Hmmm just goes to show Wiki is not right always :rolleyes: anyway here is a phot essay which may help you a bit:-

PICT0094.jpg

Very late model majestic with side safety

Bolt_handle_engraved.jpg

Normal majestic bolt shroud and safety lever (1959 vintage)

P4210064.jpg

1st Pattern Monarch of 68 vintage.

14068628.jpg

This is a CF2 half stock however although the photo is not that clear it has the angular bolt shroud of the late Monarch and not the smooth rounded one usually associated with the CF2 model

2993406.jpg

Very old photo of the CF2 stutzen and a Swedish Mauser.

One thing you soon learn about BSA's is that nothing is cast in stone about them :rolleyes: it makes learning about them interesting and frustrating too.

Oh yes BSA instructions shipped witht he CF2 says of bolt removal:-

To remove the bolt, pull the trigger and, retaining pressure on the trigger, withdraw the bolt.

Wiki is wrong!
 
I've had majestics, monarchs and cf2's, I thought they were all squeeze trigger and draw out??

:lol: I got caught out with that thinking too. Went to look at one at Joe Beathams Gunshop East Barnet and the bolt wouldn't come out. Joe popped it out fist try :oops: the accountants cutting production costs had the triggers simplified as the models progressed so the later ones are not as good IMHO as the early ones which could be adjusted to make the two stage even. Both my 1st Pattern Monarchs require the trigger to be pushed forwards as does the light coloured stock late model Majestic in .243 in the montage .... Just got it out to check as I could not remember which way that one was :banghead: .
 
Thanks for the extensive info guys. To save further speculation I'll fire up the camera tomorrow and let the jury decide.

On the bolt removal front - the trigger does not move forward at all. The only way to remove the bolt is to withdraw it with the safety half-on half-off.

My brain hurts - bedtime I think. Better luck tomorrow :)
 
Thanks for the extensive info guys. To save further speculation I'll fire up the camera tomorrow and let the jury decide.

On the bolt removal front - the trigger does not move forward at all. The only way to remove the bolt is to withdraw it with the safety half-on half-off.

My brain hurts - bedtime I think. Better luck tomorrow :)

You will not feel the trigger moving in my experience when you push it forwards it moves that little. The fact that the safety must be manlipulated confirms my suspicion that someone has adjusted the trigger and the sear engagement is incorrect. The sear engagement effects the safety engagement and the older BSA trigger units have a sear adjustment screw.

Recently I acquired a Midland 2100 on which the trigger had been played with and set to just over 1lb pull. Far too light for my liking on a hunting rifle where gloves might be worn. The Timney type the P-H fitted has an adjustment range of 2 1/2 lbs to 5 lbs and no matter how I tried the heaviest pull I can achieve is just under 2 lbs but it now has some creep :banghead: so someone has been at the sear etc I will have a look and see what they have done and see if I can correct their meddling. Some folks should leave well alone.

charliefox I would not trust that trigger in it's current state as something is wrong with it. You might try washing it out with carb/injector or brake cleaner as it's possible some muck has built uup over the years and is interfearing with the sears free movement? Some people will insist of oiling triggers :rolleyes:.
 
Let's start with some pics, then I can worry about defective triggers....

DSC02136.jpg

DSC02134.jpg

DSC02137.jpg

DSC02135.jpg

So, based on the above, could someone give me a definitive model, please? :)

After that I can worry about trigger release! I have to say the trigger feels on the heavy side, maybe 5lbs? I don't have a spring gauge to check. Quite a short movement range and little creep. But that's all subjective - all I can compare it to is a CZ452 and some shotguns!
 
Perhaps I should have titled this thread "Chris is a complete numpty!"

Having had a more circumspect play with the rifle I can confirm that the bolt does release consistantly with forward pressure on the trigger. There is no perceived movement of the trigger under forward pressure.

God knows how I was managing to remove it by fiddling with the safety, probably the same as the guy in the gun shop who's more used to brand new X-Bolts and T3s!

Anyway, still keen to know the model type. Apologies for the run around on the bolt release :oops:
 
Chris,

The photos show a .270 Calibre 2nd Pattern Monarch.

Now your trigger pull is adjustable for weight, there is a small allen screw in the top face of the trigger blade and you need to slacken it off a bit to reduce the weight if I recall correctly, if it gets heavier then turn it the other way. Oh and yes the bolt handle could do with a bit of spit and polish :p.

Have you got scope rings for it?

I see it has the P-H bases.

Now with a bit of TLC that will be a real cracker :D.
 
Chris,

The photos show a .270 Calibre 2nd Pattern Monarch. Thank you, finally I know what it is :)

Now your trigger pull is adjustable for weight, there is a small allen screw in the top face of the trigger blade and you need to slacken it off a bit to reduce the weight if I recall correctly, if it gets heavier then turn it the other way. I'll have a go at that later, thanks.
Oh and yes the bolt handle could do with a bit of spit and polish :p. I did spend about 1/2 an hour with some Flitz polish on the top of the bolt itself. The bolt handle looks like it might once have been black - or is it just heavy pitting? :eek:

Have you got scope rings for it?

I see it has the P-H bases. Yes, it came with P-H bases and rings with, would you believe, a Nikko Sterling 4x32 scope??!! Anyway, it's going to get my Lightstream 4.5x14x44 at the moment. Needless to say the existing mounts won't accomodate that due to the intermediate sight part way down the barrel. Fortunately Sportsmatch TO50C seem to be the right spec and are on their way.

Now with a bit of TLC that will be a real cracker :D.

Still debating wether to take it in bits to strip the stock and give it an oil finish. I'm concerned the "faux ivory" plastic may just evaporate in the face of Nitromors!

Any thoughts about floating barrels and mods? The barrel certainly doesn't float and clearly a mod is out without having the front sight removed, screw cut and re-crowned.

So many questions..... but thanks for your patience and advice :thumb:
 
Nitromors will not damage the plastic diamond in the grip gap unless left sittiing on it for extended period. I have used it on several BSA and Parker-hale stocks with these white plastic bits with no ill effect.

Now as to your scope I would not put those horrid looking Sportsmatch things on such a classic rifle. As for the Nikko Sterling 4x32 yes I do believe it an the old Special Sporting and Special 4x32's were good scopes. It's only in modern times are our eyes so poor that we require 6x minimum magnification to shoot deer on the oepn hill. The 4x32 does give up a bit of light transmission in the gloom especially woodland but that was the std size some 40 years ago. I would ahte to hazzard a guess at the number of deer such scopes have grassed over the decades. One must remmber that using a scope was considered cheating in Highland stalking only 60 years ago by many.

As for scope mounts I see the scope you have uses a 1" tube even though the makers site says 25mm :rolleyes: It make me wonder if they don't know that 1" is 25.4mm how good is their QC? .................................... anyway a set of P-h RAHS3 rings would fit teh scope onto your rifle and are about the easiest size to come by here is my Majestic featherweight fitted with a Lisenfeld 3-9x44 held by a set of P-H RAHS4 rings (26mm) Ahhh just noticed in the photo the mount is a one piece P-H #26 that I used before finding the RAHS4 rings... whoops! and since then I have adapted a set of steel Hilver Brno mounts and fitted those:-

PICT0064.jpg

Not the best photos I'll agree but the scopes objective clears the rear sight as it's not long enough to reach it but as you see the rear sight is easily drifted out of it's dovetailed slot and filed away safely for re-fitting at a leter date should you so wish..

There is still some Steel Hilver rings to fit the P-H bases available new but they do require the hole drilled in the base of one and the supplied recoil stud pin pressed intot eh hole. Why they didn't fit them???.

Another option which will not cost a firtune and allows a huge range of rings choice is the Weaver type bases which come is alloy or steel and would be far preferable to that dreaded Sportsmatch air rifle mount.

However it's your rifle so your choice ;).

Now to the touchy subject of floated barrels....................................... NO your BSA does not have one, never did have one, a and will likely shoot very well without you messing with the the stocking up of the rifle. If your going to use a bi-pod then not only will you have to swop the sling loops for studs but you need to get the machine screw front stud and ferrule or it's going to eventually tear out of the wood. the studs are short on these due to the design of the forestock the 1st Pattern Monarch I acquired has this problem which the selled failed to mention I fitted a sling and the rifle nearly hit the ground when the sling loop pulled free under the rifle weight. It was tripped by over tightenign or Bi-pod use in my opinion. I am looking for a suitable machine screw and ferrule sling loop to repair it with.

Personally I would not be having such a rifle adulterated with screwcutting :D however it's got to be you choice.

The bolt handles were I believe were blacked, but saying that the later CF2's were offered in the white on some and blacked on others so it could have been either. I do not have a 2nd Pattern Monarch to go by however the one shown in John Knibbs BSA book has a blacked handle.

I would polish it with 600 wet and dry then get soem 1200 and finally metal polish then you can decide to either leave it bright of blacken it. Here is the polished bolt handle on the 1st pattern Monarch we have just re-furbished as a .280 AI:-

P2090121.jpg


There are some cold bluing creams or solutions available and if done correctly then look good but will not wear as well as rust bluing ot hot salt blacking of course but one can always touch up the cold bluing one self. Note the one piece #16 again but it does not quite fit the long action properly so once again after trying it a set of the correct 26mm rings were fitted the the Kaps scope.
 
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