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Thread: .300 Rook Rifle

  1. #1

    .300 Rook Rifle

    As the title suggests looking for info on a .300 rook rifle
    I was wondering if any one had any Ideas on how I could trace the maker of such a rifle
    The rifle in question is a side lever opening Hammer action hexaganol barrel
    no makers name but looks like it has a serial no and some proofing marks

    pics to follow
    cheers in advance

  2. #2
    If you can get a decent photo of the proof marks I can send them to friend who who is a bit of a boffin on British proof marks.

    Gerry on the other place may be able to help if it's German.

  3. #3
    Cheers GH
    here are a few pics


















    the no 300 stamped on the barrel


    serial no I think


    Proof marks ??



  4. #4
    Belgian proof marks? The R with the crown is perhaps the Belgian rifle proof-mark. The obelisk-type thing might be part of the final proof mark. The rest I can't make out very well.

  5. #5
    Hi Rich

    Definitely Belgium proof marks, as Dalua says the Crown with R designates rifled barrel, introduced for rifles over 8mm in 1897. The 4th one that looks like an obelisk could be the Perron a sole proof mark since 1853 used to indicate inspection or proof of the breech system.

    Cannot make out anymore in detail but this will give you more info. http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html

    Cheers

    Chris
    Life should be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving skidding in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming WOO HOO what a ride!

  6. #6
    Have you had a look in Colin Greenwood's book on rook and rabbit rifles? Just a thought because while it is really about British rifles mention is also made to foreign guns.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Rob View Post
    Hi Rich

    Definitely Belgium proof marks, as Dalua says the Crown with R designates rifled barrel, introduced for rifles over 8mm in 1897. The 4th one that looks like an obelisk could be the Perron a sole proof mark since 1853 used to indicate inspection or proof of the breech system.

    Cannot make out anymore in detail but this will give you more info. http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html

    Cheers

    Chris
    Cheers Chris
    that is a very usefull link
    This is what I hav found out so far


    The first mark is no 20 in the list
    Crown with an R underneath it

    "Designates Rifled barrel, Introduced for handguns in 1894, rifles over 8mm in 1897
    since 1924 used on all rifled arms" 1894 - onwards

    The 2nd mark is no 11 on list

    "Example of an Inspector's mark and can be any letter of the alphabet" 1877 - present
    This one is AR letters combined

    The 3rd mark is no 1 on the list , the Perron

    "The Perron, sole proof mark untill dropped in 1810, since 1853 used to indicate inspection or proof of breeching system, not used on revolvers " 1853 - present

    the 4th mark is no 13 on the list

    "Introduced to designate arms prooved in conformity of German proof law 1891.
    it now represents definitive black powder proof except for muzzle loaders " 1893 - present

    all I now need to do is verify the proofers stamp AR and going by the Controller of Proof code
    suggests it was stamped by both Woit Nicolas Cominoto 1951-1954
    and Wagemans Sylvain 1951-1965
    which if I am correct will date the rifle between 1951-1954
    but can't understand why they would do a combined mark?? any ideas
    and just one more stamp I found on the other side of the barrel opposite to the proofing marks
    not sure what it means but will post a pic of it shortly
    and thanks for everyone's help so far on this


  8. #8
    Would anyone have been making new rook rifles in the 1950's? I know the ammo didn't stop being produced until the 60's, but the rook rifle had had it's day a long time before that.
    Could the later proof mark indicate that it had been re-proved for some reason?
    You can't say muntjac without saying, Mmmmmm.

  9. #9
    sorry Harry Mac
    for not replying sooner
    as I hav no answer or actuall suggestions to your question
    hopefully the guy I am emailing with all the details can help shed some light on the subject
    I am under the guise it has been reproofed and the orignal proofing stamp has been added on
    but can only speculate on that
    shall be interesting to find out a little more about it thou
    ATB

  10. #10
    I wonder whether the letters on the Damascus Barrels site go back far enough for the date-stamp on this rifle. I have a Parker Hale catalogue from about 1936, and that does not include any rifles of this pattern.

    Greenwood's interesting book gives the main period for rook-rifles of this sort as 1880-1920; interestingly citing the infamous Firearms Act of 1920 combined with the increasing popularity of the .22LR as partly responsible for their falling-off in popularity. He suggests that they had gone from gunmakers catalogues by about 1930.

    So, pulling the current evidence together we seem to have a black-powder rifle dating from after 1891. I wonder whether the Damascus Barrels description of the use the 'crowned R' is quite accurate, as 1924 would seem quite late for a .300 blackpowder rifle of this kind. Perhaps .300 was reckoned to be near enough 8mm, and this mark applied earlier?
    Last edited by Dalua; 10-03-2011 at 22:58.

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