.300 Rook Rifle

stone

Well-Known Member
As the title suggests looking for info on a .300 rook rifle
I was wondering if any one had any Ideas on how I could trace the maker of such a rifle
The rifle in question is a side lever opening Hammer action hexaganol barrel
no makers name but looks like it has a serial no and some proofing marks

pics to follow
cheers in advance
 
If you can get a decent photo of the proof marks I can send them to friend who who is a bit of a boffin on British proof marks.

Gerry on the other place may be able to help if it's German.
 
Cheers GH
here are a few pics
IMG_3033.jpg


IMG_3034.jpg


IMG_3043.jpg


IMG_3030.jpg


IMG_3017.jpg


IMG_3019.jpg


IMG_3031.jpg


IMG_3032.jpg


IMG_3024.jpg


the no 300 stamped on the barrel
IMG_3036.jpg


serial no I think
IMG_3021.jpg


Proof marks ??
IMG_3027.jpg

IMG_3026.jpg

 
Belgian proof marks? The R with the crown is perhaps the Belgian rifle proof-mark. The obelisk-type thing might be part of the final proof mark. The rest I can't make out very well.
 
Hi Rich

Definitely Belgium proof marks, as Dalua says the Crown with R designates rifled barrel, introduced for rifles over 8mm in 1897. The 4th one that looks like an obelisk could be the Perron a sole proof mark since 1853 used to indicate inspection or proof of the breech system.

Cannot make out anymore in detail but this will give you more info. http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html

Cheers

Chris
 
Have you had a look in Colin Greenwood's book on rook and rabbit rifles? Just a thought because while it is really about British rifles mention is also made to foreign guns.
 
Hi Rich

Definitely Belgium proof marks, as Dalua says the Crown with R designates rifled barrel, introduced for rifles over 8mm in 1897. The 4th one that looks like an obelisk could be the Perron a sole proof mark since 1853 used to indicate inspection or proof of the breech system.

Cannot make out anymore in detail but this will give you more info. http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html

Cheers

Chris

Cheers Chris
that is a very usefull link
This is what I hav found out so far


The first mark is no 20 in the list
Crown with an R underneath it

"Designates Rifled barrel, Introduced for handguns in 1894, rifles over 8mm in 1897
since 1924 used on all rifled arms" 1894 - onwards

The 2nd mark is no 11 on list

"Example of an Inspector's mark and can be any letter of the alphabet" 1877 - present
This one is AR letters combined

The 3rd mark is no 1 on the list , the Perron

"The Perron, sole proof mark untill dropped in 1810, since 1853 used to indicate inspection or proof of breeching system, not used on revolvers " 1853 - present

the 4th mark is no 13 on the list

"Introduced to designate arms prooved in conformity of German proof law 1891.
it now represents definitive black powder proof except for muzzle loaders " 1893 - present

all I now need to do is verify the proofers stamp AR and going by the Controller of Proof code
suggests it was stamped by both Woit Nicolas Cominoto 1951-1954
and Wagemans Sylvain 1951-1965
which if I am correct will date the rifle between 1951-1954
but can't understand why they would do a combined mark?? any ideas
and just one more stamp I found on the other side of the barrel opposite to the proofing marks
not sure what it means but will post a pic of it shortly
and thanks for everyone's help so far on this

 
Would anyone have been making new rook rifles in the 1950's? I know the ammo didn't stop being produced until the 60's, but the rook rifle had had it's day a long time before that.
Could the later proof mark indicate that it had been re-proved for some reason?
 
sorry Harry Mac
for not replying sooner
as I hav no answer or actuall suggestions to your question
hopefully the guy I am emailing with all the details can help shed some light on the subject
I am under the guise it has been reproofed and the orignal proofing stamp has been added on
but can only speculate on that
shall be interesting to find out a little more about it thou
ATB
 
I wonder whether the letters on the Damascus Barrels site go back far enough for the date-stamp on this rifle. I have a Parker Hale catalogue from about 1936, and that does not include any rifles of this pattern.

Greenwood's interesting book gives the main period for rook-rifles of this sort as 1880-1920; interestingly citing the infamous Firearms Act of 1920 combined with the increasing popularity of the .22LR as partly responsible for their falling-off in popularity. He suggests that they had gone from gunmakers catalogues by about 1930.

So, pulling the current evidence together we seem to have a black-powder rifle dating from after 1891. I wonder whether the Damascus Barrels description of the use the 'crowned R' is quite accurate, as 1924 would seem quite late for a .300 blackpowder rifle of this kind. Perhaps .300 was reckoned to be near enough 8mm, and this mark applied earlier?
 
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Now that I've had a look at the pics (can't do that on my pooter at work), I'd say the rifle was made somewhere between about 1895 and 1910, judging by it's style. It follows the general look of rifles available at that time and would have been styled to appeal to those who maybe couldn't afford a rifle by one of the "names" (evn though most of the rifles themselves were actually made by Webley) but who wanted to look the part. In style it's actually very similar to my own Holland and Holland.
 
It looks very like one I have seen for sale (which has an english maker). Could it be that many were made in Birmingham and then sent wherever to be stamped with different names?
 
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