Classic guns and gun shops?

captdavid

Well-Known Member
It's always been a dream of mine to own a classic English rifle. I'm not interested in a collector's rifle, just a shooter. If it has been modified it would be OK with me, 'cause it would be cheaper.I would like a 275 Rigby, a 318 Wesley Richards, a 300 H&H Super, or possibly one in 30US 30-06. I have no idea what they might sell for. If anyone could help, or send me in the right direction, I would be much appreciative. Thanks, capt david
 
Try Ron Peterson's Guns in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Ron often has English sporting rifles. Simpson's LTD would be another good source. These rifles are available in the US. No need to look abroad.~Muir
 
Ahhh even though your intending to visit our shores buying the rifle whilst here although not impossible is extremely difficult. Findign a dealer who knows how to help you is also very difficult as it's such a hassle and time consuming most are not interested. Exporting one by carrier is a different thing all together and several have experiecne of this.

Now you say English Rifle. ....................................... well please bear in mind the Parker-Hale and BSA are also English as is TT Proctor, and they are very different. This is I believe a classically English style rifle:-

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Of course it's a .270 and not one you mentioned. The rifle is an enhanced Parker-Hale and several companies did this so P-H rifles. I believe that Rigby of London did some for Parker-Hale but they are usually marked as such. This one is not so who did the work is not known. The rifle is priced I seem to recall at £295 another calibre/chambering would probably be more as the .270 Winchester is unfashionable in a lot of places now it seems.
 
Hi,
I was stalking with a friend on thursday and he has a 300 H&H made by TT Proctor, its a stunning rifle and one hell of a machine.
 
Basically there is no such thing after about 1900 as "a classic English bolt action rifle" that you could not pretty much have made in the USA by any custom gunmaker.

The reason is is that mostly all the English bespoke rifles after that date used imported Mauser actions - or Mannlicher actions. Rigby, Westley (although not my choice they were never considered as a "first rank" maker), Holland's, Gibbs etc.

THAT IN ITSELF MAY CAUSE PROBLEMS FOR YOU IN TEXAS AS MOST BASED ON A MAUSER WILL HAVE THE THUMB CUT OUT YOUR BATF DON'T LIKE BEING IMPORTED!

The only rifle I would avoid would be the Lloyd abominations. They don't please the eye nor would I consider them a "classic " style.

But! There's always as "but"....but what sets "a classic English bolt action rifle" apart from anything made in the USA or even Europe is the 'scope mounting system.

And regretfully you simply can't re-create that with something bought cheap "off the shelf" from Leupold or Weaver or Warne.

Or even Apel or anybody's Suhler type mounts. They just don't look right for "a classic English bolt action rifle".

Only Prechtl in Germany AFAIK makes anything like Holland's sidemount and it isn't cheap!

Best of luck with your search.

Holt's the Norfolk based auctioneers have a good export service to US. I'd also consider Bonham's sporting gun department and Gavin Gardiner associated with Sotheby's.

But...and here's the final "but"...but don't expect really any better than something under a three inch group at one hundred yards.
 
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Brit, did I read you correct? If so, where might the said rifle be found...received my tax rebate yesterday! :p
 
Sorry, I should have been clearer. Is the .270 in your original post currently on the marker and, if so, whererabouts?
 
Not wishing to be contentious but what constitutes a classic British rifle? I know that Brithunter is a great fan of Parker Hale and BSA rifles and I don’t want to upset him but personally I wouldn’t consider most Parker Hale rifles as classic British rifles. My first centrefire rifle was a Parker Hale and I think of them as good rifles in their day and still very good value for money, hey I was even tempted to start collecting them myself a few years back but I can’t think of most of them as typical classic British rifles.
Right the reasons for my thinking.
1. Parker Hale rifles were assembled from a series of parts bins. Originally various military actions were adapted and in later years Santa Barbara (excuse spelling) commercial actions from Spain were utilised.
2. Many Parker Hale rifles resembled horrid mock Weatherby rifles with white plastic spacers and skip line chequering, certainly not what a classic British rifle should look like in my opinion.

Saying that the finest Parker Hale to my way of thinking and the one closest to the classic British style was one of the last models that they produced the M81 classic.
Enfieldsports has a very valid point about rifles based on military Mauser actions being prevented from import in to the U.S.A.
Now I’ll duck out of the debate and go to the garage to look for my grandfathers old steel helmet and await the incoming. Nothing personal Kev it’s just that we all have different views on what constitutes a classic British rifle.
 
Sorry, I should have been clearer. Is the .270 in your original post currently on the marker and, if so, whererabouts?

No problem. The rifle is an enhanced Parker-Hale but by who we do not know. I have seen similar ones offered for sale at gunshow. At one Bisley show was one by Alex Martin and they wanted a lot ofr it. When i aksed how they could justify the price for what was a very slightly altered P-H 1200 Super they just looked blankly. That one even had the P-H 1200 stock that was only slightly, very slightly altered, yet the price was well over double this one.

I will PM the details where I saw it but please be aware I am not looked at/for it in the last couple of weeks. It was there a few weeks ago. I had considered tying to get it my self but let's face the licesing folks don't like the fact i already have four .270's now so number Five would be problematic.
 
Not wishing to be contentious but what constitutes a classic British rifle? I know that Brithunter is a great fan of Parker Hale and BSA rifles and I don’t want to upset him but personally I wouldn’t consider most Parker Hale rifles as classic British rifles. My first centrefire rifle was a Parker Hale and I think of them as good rifles in their day and still very good value for money, hey I was even tempted to start collecting them myself a few years back but I can’t think of most of them as typical classic British rifles.
Right the reasons for my thinking.
1. Parker Hale rifles were assembled from a series of parts bins. Originally various military actions were adapted and in later years Santa Barbara (excuse spelling) commercial actions from Spain were utilised.
2. Many Parker Hale rifles resembled horrid mock Weatherby rifles with white plastic spacers and skip line chequering, certainly not what a classic British rifle should look like in my opinion.

Saying that the finest Parker Hale to my way of thinking and the one closest to the classic British style was one of the last models that they produced the M81 classic.
Enfieldsports has a very valid point about rifles based on military Mauser actions being prevented from import in to the U.S.A.
Now I’ll duck out of the debate and go to the garage to look for my grandfathers old steel helmet and await the incoming. Nothing personal Kev it’s just that we all have different views on what constitutes a classic British rifle.

It's OK when I was much younger I didn't look at the Parker-Hales much myself as I was too tied up in the Lee Enfield and it's varients and much prefered the BSA rifles. P-H didn't even start making their line of sporting rifles until they moved to the old BSA Sparkbrook site. Lew Potter told me that when they were sorting outt he place they found in alcoves in the tunnel range thousands of new Mauser 98 actions and that's why they started producing rifles. Unlike BSA P-H never made the actions but they did make the barrels. So far I have not been able to find out who made the triggers the stocks came from Sile of italy who alos supplied the late BSA stocks after the accountants closed dow the stocking shop.

The stock style was heavily influenced by the American market which of course is far larger than the UK market and I am sorry to say that the Californian influence of Roy Weatherby is obvious hence the P-H super styling :rolleyes: and the white line spacers. P-H's American agents/importers and sales folks at Sparkbrook did them no favors in that respect. Ole Roy has a lot to answer for :banghead: one heck of a salesman even if he had no original ideas of his own.

Now one must remember that Holland & Holland, Purdy, Rigby and Westley Richards all built on the Mauser 98 action anda re considered "THE" English rifles so how you can say Parker-Hale is not? begs the question if they are not what exactly is?

The late Sanata Barabra actions do not have any thumb cut out so that is a non point oh and yes it appears the name Sanat Barabra may be a made up one for sales of commercial actions and rifles, Frank De Haas puts forwards the theory that they were in fact made in La Coruana the Spanish Government arsenal.

The problem with "Classic" rifles is that over the centuries it has changed and evolved in style, the long 25" and longer barrels with stand and leaf express sights gave way to shorter 22" barrels and a simple folding leaf rear sight, the stock styles ahve changed firstly to make the used of scopes easier then of course to appease the larger customer base. Not all the changes have been for the better IMHO. If oen has the funds there are those who like Ron Wharton of Rigby's who will build you a classic English sporting rifle.
 
Thanks, that would be appreciated. I'm really looking for a 7x57 (or a 6.5x55 if BSA's/Parker Hales were ever made in that calibre), but they seem very few and far between.
 
Not so long ago (8 or 9 years ?) Litts aquired a number of the very last BSA rifles to be produced dusted them off and offered them for sale. How I wish that I had purchased a 7x57 CF2 at that time to lay it aside. I know that many people questioned the build quality of the last rifles that they made but to my mind that would have been a classic of the future.
I was also offered a brand new Webley revolver in the late seventies or early eighties when the factory was being sold off and a stock of these was discovered in a stock room. At the time the Webley was rather dated and unsexy and didn't stack up against my S&W 29 or 686 so I turned it down, what a silly boy I was. Never mind it probably would have been stolen by the government anyway.
 
Funnily enough I know where there is a new CF2 in 7mm Rem Mag.. It will need a new bolt as I assume it was taken from the factory at the end and the bolt is not the correct one. The iron sights have never been fitted and the bottom metal is missing. I may try to ge the bits and put it together with the RFD who picked it up at auction. The bolt is a std bolt and so ahs the wrong face and extractor.

Now I picked up one of the new CF2's seen here:-

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From Peter Frost of Empire Gunsight Co. According to Knibbs book only 389 of them were made. Itw as this rifle I took to Missouri back in 2003 for my trip. It was the acquistion of this new BSA CF2 in about 2000 that made me think about acquiring a new P-H to go with it as representatives of the last of the british classic sporting rifle by these two firms. I remembered that York Guns was advertising soem new 1200 Supers in 7.92mm which they claimed were over-runs from a special export order and although is was aquite a few years after these ads appeared in Guns review I gave them a call and yep they had one in the box still so a deal was done and it wa shipped down to a local RFD for me to collect Here it is right out of the box:-

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Notice the gap in the inletting. I now wonder if this rifle was rejected from the order. This is the one I had to have the inletting and bedding sorted on as the grouping was not acceptable and this particular rifle does not like a floated barrel. Bob Harvey did the work and it's much better now.:-

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With a bit of stock oil rubbed in as the wood was dry. I am trying to get Lincs to put it on for stalking.

I also recall and regret not acquiring one of the new CF2 Stutzens in 7x64 that York Guns amongst others were offering for sale at that time :doh:.
 
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