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Thread: Minimum Acreage to get cleared for centrefire?

  1. #1

    Minimum Acreage to get cleared for centrefire?

    Hi,

    I have just got permission from a landowner to shoot deer in his very small wood, this is connected to a large woods of approximately 100 acres.

    It is a bluebell wood, so as you would imagine in the South has plenty of muntjac present, as well as some fallow and roe.

    The land is flat so the only real prospect is to use highseats anyway. I am waiting for confirmation of the exact size of the woods before I then go to the local FEO to get the land cleared. My estimate would be 15 acres, no footpaths in or around the woods.

    I am currently in discussions with my firearms licensing department to get an open ticket. But until then I will need to get the land checked, does anyone know what the deemed minimum acreage would be to allow me to use a .222 .243 and .270?

    Cheers

    Ross

  2. #2
    There isn't a minimum Ross, it will all rest on the opinion of the FEO on the day.

    I had a similar situation when I tried to get 30acres cleared, it was refused for centrefire at the time and now that I have open ticket I can (legally) shoot there but I often wonder whether I should?.... knowing that it has been deemed unsuitable.
    "It's halfway down the hill, directly below that tree next to a rock that looks like a bell-end"

    Good deals with ~ deako ~ sakowsm ~ dryan ~ 2734neil ~ mo ~ riggers ~ mmbeatle ~ seanct ~ an du ru fox

  3. #3
    What I will do is ear mark some suitable trees that I can put a highseat up, so when I meet the FEO I will show him that I have identified some areas that would give best visibility for a safe shot etc.

    I think I should be OK as I spoke to the FEO and he was a nice guy and seemed very reasonable so lets hope he got out of bed the right side on the day I meet him.

    Any more pointers/advice?

    Cheers

    Ross

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Si View Post
    I had a similar situation when I tried to get 30acres cleared, it was refused for centrefire at the time and now that I have open ticket I can (legally) shoot there but I often wonder whether I should?.... knowing that it has been deemed unsuitable.
    Si, sorry but.............................

    You have an open FAC and can make decisions about the suitability of land based on your own judgement. Who's to say if the FEO who made that original decision didn't make it because the land didn't look or seem right to his way of thinking at the time? Was he even qualified to make the call and given your recent tales of woe with your FLD, did he do it to discourage you rather than from any actual safety aspect?

  5. #5
    That's exactly why I need an open ticket.

    Generally when shooting from a highseat you will be safe in the knowledge that you will have a safe backdrop. If the FEO takes one look at the woods and says "too small for a CF" how will he make that decision? Could they say as a condition "CF only to be used from a highseat" ?

    What I need to do is concentrate my efforts on getting my Firearms licensing to agree to an open ticket sooner rather than later!!

    Cheers

    Ross

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Si, sorry but.............................

    You have an open FAC and can make decisions about the suitability of land based on your own judgement. Who's to say if the FEO who made that original decision didn't make it because the land didn't look or seem right to his way of thinking at the time? Was he even qualified to make the call and given your recent tales of woe with your FLD, did he do it to discourage you rather than from any actual safety aspect?
    You could be right about trying to discourage me. My FEO's reputation comes before him.
    The land was deemed unsuitable for 2 reasons... one being a canal nearby and the other a row of cottages. I never challenged the decision because I knew that it wouldn't be long before I got ticket opened for .223.
    I know I can legally shoot there.... and I do, but if something where to go wrong, for example if I frightened a dog walker and they reported me. Would there be any ramifications?... as by choosing to shoot on that land I would be going against the recommendation of the FEO.
    Last edited by Si; 17-03-2011 at 13:37.
    "It's halfway down the hill, directly below that tree next to a rock that looks like a bell-end"

    Good deals with ~ deako ~ sakowsm ~ dryan ~ 2734neil ~ mo ~ riggers ~ mmbeatle ~ seanct ~ an du ru fox

  7. #7
    Please excuse my ignorance in these matters - perhaps someone can enlighten me?

    Where did this condition/requirement inserted on FACs that land be 'cleared by the Chief Officer of Police' come from? This causes concern and indeed amusement when looking at FACs of prospective joint lessors this far north from the notion that you will get the Chief Constable or his minions out trudging the policies (several thousand square miles of them) to deem a particular parcel of land as 'suitable' for the use of a rifle.

    What gives them both the right to insert this and the qualification to be able to judge the suitability or otherwise?

    Does the Home Office Guidance support this?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by kuwinda View Post
    Please excuse my ignorance in these matters - perhaps someone can enlighten me?

    Where did this condition/requirement inserted on FACs that land be 'cleared by the Chief Officer of Police' come from? This causes concern and indeed amusement when looking at FACs of prospective joint lessors this far north from the notion that you will get the Chief Constable or his minions out trudging the policies (several thousand square miles of them) to deem a particular parcel of land as 'suitable' for the use of a rifle.
    Unfortunately south of the wall some police FLDs with rather more limited horizons, (physical and mental ), than exist in Jockland thrive on imposing these territorial conditions.

    What gives them both the right to insert this and the qualification to be able to judge the suitability or otherwise?
    The right stems from the ability of any Chief Constable to impose any condition he/she may deem neccessary to preserve public safety. The fact that some use it to unneccessarily inconvenience some FAC holders is a foregone conclusion, but there is maybe a case to be made with complete novices. The qualification of FEOs to to judge the suitability of land? Your guess is as good as mine.

    Does the Home Office Guidance support this?
    Yes, but it quotes there being 'standardisation of practice among forces' - fat chance:

    10.35 Chief officers of police are empowered
    to impose conditions if they think that the
    circumstances of the individual case mean
    that the condition is necessary to ensure the
    effective operation of the firearms controls
    and to minimise the risk to public safety.
    Forces should note that those conditions
    relating to otherwise prohibited firearms and
    ammunition such as expanding ammunition
    are statutory. The chief officer does not have
    discretion to grant a certificate for such
    firearms and ammunition beyond the terms
    of the statutory exemptions for these items.
    a) Territorial Conditions on use
    A territorial condition restricts the areas
    where the firearm may be used by a person
    who holds a firearm for sporting purposes or
    for the shooting of vermin. It is important
    that there should be standardisation of
    practice amongst forces and for this purpose
    it is recommended that new certificate
    holders should be limited to land considered
    suitable by the chief officer. When a chief
    officer is satisfied that a certificate holder has
    gained sufficient experience with a particular
    calibre or class of firearm the less restrictive
    condition may be considered appropriate
    (see Appendix 3).

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by kuwinda View Post
    the notion that you will get the Chief Constable or his minions out trudging the policies (several thousand square miles of them) to deem a particular parcel of land as 'suitable'
    Indeed they do... our man keeps a pair of wellies in the boot of his car

    BTW, Kuwinda.... coffee came out of my nose when I read your post
    I'd never really thought of it like that, it sounds rather ridiculous when you put it like that.
    Last edited by Si; 17-03-2011 at 15:00.
    "It's halfway down the hill, directly below that tree next to a rock that looks like a bell-end"

    Good deals with ~ deako ~ sakowsm ~ dryan ~ 2734neil ~ mo ~ riggers ~ mmbeatle ~ seanct ~ an du ru fox

  10. #10
    Ross, i was in the same situation i have an open ticket and part of my shooting was is a small 11 acre wood next to a much larger wood.
    When i applied for a .30 cal i put this down as an area i would be using it, more for peace of mind than anything as it is near a reserve and the public , i could have given other areas to get the .30 the but i wanted the land checked anyway for other reasons.
    Two firearms officers came out and inspected it,it passed with flying colours and now been put on the police database as suitable for 308. DF

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